Left turn signals gone awol. Ideas?

[montmil]

The left turn signals on my 1981 R65, both front and rear, have stopped functioning. Right sides are good to go.

I have run each wire with a DVOM and found no problems. Both left-side bulbs function when tested on an alternate power source. Have checked all grounds and tried alternate ground locations.

Fuses are good and also tried backups.

Here's what I did just prior to the left side going Tango Uniform...  Removed the turn signal relay so I could use a Sharpie to i.d. the part then replaced it. Relay now does a rapid clicking when the left turn switch is engaged but no joy on the lights. Tried removing/replacing, checked terminals. Right sides are still good.

My best guess is: 1) Relay decided to fail-allergic reaction to the Sharpie, or 2) there's a problem in the handlebar-mounted turn signal switch. What am I missing?

Opened up the turn signal switch on the h'bar. The back of the switch says, "Made in Japan". OMG! On a BMW? Sacrilege!

Can the switch be opened up for inspection and/or repair? How about a fresh relay? This will not interfere with riding but I'd like to get the lefties working.

Thanks for any ideas.

Monte

[nhmaf]

My first suspicion is the relay output is not connected, and has either broken internally or perhaps an issue with the mating
terminal in the socket.   The rapid clicking can often be an indicator of an open circuit in the output.   And, it worked until
you pulled on the relay to remove it, correct ?    I don't think that I'd try taking the switch apart until I was 100% positive
it wasn't the relay or its connections - sometimes those switches are pretty fragile.

[Altritter]

While we're on the subject of a left turn signal on an '81, may I add a similar question regarding the same item on my bike? The signals work (both L and R), but the left-signal telltale light on the instrument panel does not. The audible telltale for left or right turns works.

The wiring diagram seems to indicate that there is a 3w bulb for the L telltale. Bob's Parts Dept told me on the phone that it's part of the relay. Can someone clarify?

I haven't gone into the instrument panel (yet) to inspect because I follow the philosophy that if an item fulfills its primary mission, there's little to gain (and sometimes much to lose) by tinkering with a nonessential component. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it.) I am particularly loath to mess with the electrics (which I often don't understand) on an old bike that is basically new to me. Thus, any information on the subject will be welcome.

Good luck. JT

[Justin B.]

Bob's doesn't know what they are talking about in this case.  It's obvious that you have a directional indicator on the dash so why would they insist it's in the relay - or, why would a relay even have a bulb in it to begin with!!??  I'm amazed at times...

Each of the green indicators has a bulb socket poked into the other end so it could either be the bulb not making good contact in it's socket, the socket bad, dirty connector on socket where wires plug in, or the bulb.  I would lean toward the first or last guess...

[mikethebike]

I had problems with the tell tales when I bought my bike.  They are prone to cracking where the bulb socket mounts.  Both mine had been bodged with tape and one of them was bouncing about in the plastic backing section.  They are quite expensive if you have to renew the green top and holder.  I bought a couple of tell tales from a motor factor store and very very carefully drilled out the old green plastic top until my circular lamp body would fit it. New lamp popped in and connected with push on spades underneath.  It aint as pretty as it was but only an R65 owner would spot the change.

[montmil]

My first suspicion is the relay output is not connected, and has either broken internally or perhaps an issue with the mating terminal in the socket. The rapid clicking can often be an indicator of an open circuit in the output. And, it worked until
you pulled on the relay to remove it, correct ?    I don't think that I'd try taking the switch apart until I was 100% positive it wasn't the relay or its connections - sometimes those switches are pretty fragile.

Yep, the right turn signal worked before I pulled the relay. My thought, too. This is where the problem lies.

Now another problem of my own doing...  In a hurry so went shopping for another relay. Bought one that "looked right" and powered up the turn sigs. Phfttttt! Fuse blew. Replaced it. Replaced the old one and checked that the relay terminals were mating correctly.

So now, none of the turn sigs work. Nor does the horn or brake light - hand lever nor foot lever, all neg function.

Now I'm concerned I've perhaps fried the voltage regulator or the diode board or something else. Sure hope not.

Will need to order a new and correct turn signal relay. In the mean time, any other ideas? My DVOM says no power to the sigs, horn or brake light.

And the project was going so smoothly. Getting ready to install the Vapor digital dash but will now wait until I correct my danged tinkering mistakes.

I appreciate y'alls thoughts and ideas. I'm kinda "torqued" right now.

Monte

[Altritter]

To Justin: Many thanks.

To montmil: **Ouch** Sorry to hear that. I started perspiring just from reading it. If you need OEM parts, better get them quickly. BMW parts prices are going through the roof. For example, the price of the r65 battery cover emblem that our folks have been seeking recently is up about 25% in the last month.

I would be cynical if I said that some overseas manufacturers, not to be named here, are using the Euro and gasoline prices as excuses to gouge prices here in the USA. (After all, it takes a lot of fuel to slip a 3x5 emblem into an envelope, buy a stamp (even an international one), and mail it. (I know all the justifications about inventory methods, absorption costing, etc. Even after considering all that, my BS sensors are going off.)

[drewboid]

The turn signals and brake lights are all fed from the same fuse. Recheck that it is good and that you have power on both sides.
The turn signal relay will not click until it has a load on it - fast clicking indicates that the load is less than usual - like a lamp burned out. There are three lamps that it serves - front and rear turn signals and the indicator lamp; possibly a signal buzzer if your bike has one fitted.
the original fact that the relay was clicking indicates that the relay and switch was working. You knew the relay worked because the right turn signal worked and the circuit is the same up to the switch.
The original relay and switch were fine because the right turn signal worked and the switch made the relay click when turned to the left. It sounds like a broken (corroded?) wire between the switch and the turn signals.
I'm sorry you started changing out good components and made your problem worse by blowing fuses. Now you need to trace the circuit and find out why you are not getting power to (through?) the fuse to the relay and brake switch.

[montmil]

The turn signals and brake lights are all fed from the same fuse. Recheck that it is good and that you have power on both sides.
The turn signal relay will not click until it has a load on it - fast clicking indicates that the load is less than usual - like a lamp burned out. There are three lamps that it serves - front and rear turn signals and the indicator lamp; possibly a signal buzzer if your bike has one fitted.
the original fact that the relay was clicking indicates that the relay and switch was working. You knew the relay worked because the right turn signal worked and the circuit is the same up to the switch.
The original relay and switch were fine because the right turn signal worked and the switch made the relay click when turned to the left. It sounds like a broken (corroded?) wire between the switch and the turn signals.
I'm sorry you started changing out good components and made your problem worse by blowing fuses. Now you need to trace the circuit and find out why you are not getting power to (through?) the fuse to the relay and brake switch.

"The turn signals and brake lights are all fed from the same fuse. Recheck that it is good and that you have power on both sides."  Good info. Didn't know this.  M

"It sounds like a broken (corroded?) wire between the switch and the turn signals. " Will check all.  M

"I'm sorry you started changing out good components and made your problem worse by blowing fuses. Now you need to trace the circuit and find out why you are not getting power to (through?) the fuse to the relay and brake switch."  Mea culpa, mia culpa, mia maxima culpa. I'm on it.  M

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

My first guess is the switch.

On my way home today, my left signal quit working - unless I switched it left, and then pushed UP on the switch at just the right spot...then it would come on.  By the end of the ride it was starting to work again.  I suspect something in my switch, which is not very old.  I replaced the assembly just 3 or 4 years ago.
I also rode in quite a bit of rain while at the rally on Saturday.
Perhaps some water is messing with mine?

[montmil]

Well, hoorah for the one-eyed guy! I done fixed my negative function turn signals, horn and brake light.

To refresh your memory... I had pulled out the relay to i.d. it with a Sharpie. Put it back and only the right turn signal worked. Thinking I had boogered up the relay, went to the 'Zone and bought a cheapie relay and plugged it in. Naturally, the wrong one. Hit the turn sig switch and...Phtttt... went the fuse.

Had some spare fuses that came with the scooter so installed one. That's when everything through that circuit went Tango Uniform. Any ex-mil types out there understand TU.  

Posted my tale of woe on the forum, took my verbal beating like a stepchild, backed off and ordered a fresh relay from Rick Jones. Got it today so pulled out the DVOM and started tracing... carefully. All wires from the relay to the handlebar switch back to the relay, ground and to the fuse checked as good to go. Here's where it gets weird, funny, whatever...

Next, with the fuse in place, I checked across fuse terminal #1 to #2. Straight line. Just a simple continuity check and...Huh? No go. The old-style ceramic cylinder fuse had a good link. Kept checking but no joy. Old-style. Old. Another hummm.

Put the DVOM one each end of the fuse and still negative. Long story short (If you're still with me, it's too late, folks)... some 400 grit took the corrosion off the ends of the fuse and the fuse clips. Fuse in and powered up. Urethra! We're back in business with the original relay.

Whew. For those that may be experiencing similar issues, check for corrosion on the fuse ends. Unsure why the relay didn't light up the right side which triggered this whole episode. Maybe dirty terminals there too. I'm going for a ride and will signal just for the heck of it!

[mikethebike]

For the corrosion problems, I've been using ACF 50 for a couple of years now and it works!  Once you have cleaned your connections it maintains them and it's safe on electrickery.  I'm not related to the owner or seller of the product! I'm just a satisfied user.  I used it on my 7 pin towing hitch on the car and hey presto! No corrosion after a year. I was amazed as it's always been a pain after the salters had been round in the winter.  I use it on fuses, switches and all exposed metal.  Even my exhausts keep clean.

[nhmaf]

Those fuses are a common weak-point for these bikes - a reason why Rob B put in his new fuse panel, I think.
Basically, it is somewhat of a routine maintenance chore to  wiggle/twirl/clean up any corrosion on the contact points
of the fuses and the fuse holder periodically on all airheads with those fuses to remove oxidation and corrosion.
Once cleaned up, and put back into the fuse holder, put some dielectric grease or vaseline over the bare metal to help prevent
corrosion again.  

These fuses always seem to pick the most coincidental/in-opportune time to do their shenanigans.   A year or two ago, I had
just gone to the nearest bike shop to get my annual state safety inspection done.    Everything went fine, got the sticker, paid the fee, and
then went to ride back home.   the bike started right up, but my tailights and turn signals weren't working as I was trying to pull out into
traffic.  I decided to "take my inspection sticker and run" back home to diagnose the problem, as I didn't want to have to deal with
the embarrassment at the bike shop.   I had pulled the tank to check the relay and looked cursorily at the fuses.  things weren't working, and as
I pondered what to do next I just started turning the fuses in their holders...... viola !   rubbed the offending corrosion off and everything worked again.
So, pulled fuses and cleaned them and the fuse contacts and slapped on a gob or two of dielectric greaase, and its been good since.  

Eventually I will update the fuse holder to a new design that uses automotive style fuses.

[montmil]

Those fuses are a common weak-point for these bikes - Eventually I will update the fuse holder to a new design that uses automotive style fuses.

My thoughts exactly. I would much prefer the blade-style automotive fuse. They are available in a mini size that might be finagled into the existing Beemer fuse box. Ah Ha... another project idea and just as I thought I was done for awhile.

Anyone have photos or descriptions of how you did this?

Monte

[Justin B.]

THose type fuses are a problem on anything they are installed in.  With most Volvo 240 owners removing and cleaning all of the fuses/corresponding holder is a yearly ritual if you don't like walking.  I wonder if Lucas had a hand in their design...