Should this even be running?

[wilcom]

My new to me(I have about 6-700  miles on it)1984 R65LS has been running fine since I purchased it. I initially changed all the fluids when I brought it home but did not do any tune up stuff as it was running so well. So far it has always cranked fine, needing a little choke in the morning. Runs smooth idles smooth, no issues.

I say no issues, but over all I think my 1979 R65 had a little more torque and had more power at speed(accelerating from 60 mph in high gear)

I'm heading out on a 700 my trip this weekend and thought I better go ahead  and adjust the valves and Timing and make it spot on.

I found that the right exhaust was at .0025 and the left was .006. I adjusted both to .008. The intakes were also different settings left was .005 and the right was .002. I set them to .005.

Now I moved to the timing and hit the mark with timing light and find at idle I'm showing the "Z" mark indicating full advance. I revved it 3500 and the light shows the flywheel is moving but to a spot that there is no mark. The advance mechanism is working.

This is SO far off of what it should be that I question my findings and have stopped to gain some more knowledge before I start adjusting. I looked at the "bean can" and it is in the middle of it's adjustment range.

SHOULD THE BIKE EVEN IDLE SET WITH 32 DEGREES OF ADVANCE!?

The bike idles fine, a little lumpy, but not enough for me to break out the spanners.

[Barry]

SHOULD THE BIKE EVEN IDLE SET WITH 32 DEGREES OF ADVANCE!?

Even if it would idle a tougher question is would it start with that much advance. I some how doubt it. My inclination would be to distrust the timing light and do a static timing check. Easy for me with points but a diffrent proposition with electronic ignition. It can be done though with a simple circuit.

https://robfrankham.com/hall-effect-tester

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

The '79s were the most powerful of the bunch, if I remember correctly, but probably not enough for you to notice.

That could be an indicator that the LS has an issue.

[wilcom]

diffrent proposition with electronic ignition. It can be done though with a simple circuit.

The ckt is easy enough to cluge together but the connector is an issue. Is there any off the shelf connector that will plug into the bean can side of the wiring?

[mrclubike]

How does it idle if you set the timing to the "S" mark at 1000rpm
Then with the light on it rev it up to  4000 rpm and you should see it go towards the "Z"

Or do it the other way and set it to The "Z" at 4K and let it slow down and you should see it go towards the "S" mark

If not your advance is stuck
 
The later is the way you should set it
 Let the LOW idle timing fall   where it wants to and make sure the High speed timing is at the "Z" mark (32deg)

 

My experience has been the advance wears and it start give to much advance (more than 26 deg)  6 + 26 = 32deg total

I am not positive but i think the clutch carrier can be put back onto the crank  wrong and cause the timing marks to be off
I think if the carrier was clocked wrong you would not see any marks at all because it would be off by at least 72deg

[mrclubike]

Like Barry said
I dont think it would idle very good and I don't think you could get it started

With that much advance it would kick  back and possibly brake the nose off of the starter
It would definitely spark knock that is for sure if the advance is working

[wilcom]

I was able to adjust the timing buy retarding it to the stop. It started and ran like dog %^#$. I'm putting it back where it was originally for now.

Building that static timer is not a easy as I thought. With the closure of almost all of the Radio Shacks, there is not a place where I can buy a electronic component within 50 miles of me.

ARRRGH

[georgesgiralt]

Hello Wilcom,
Have you checked that the flywheel had not been disturbed ?
It is easy as the bolts do not allow for a subtle error.
Remove the spark plugs and check by eye or with a suitable pin that the piston are at TDC. Check that the OT mark is visible on the window and properly centered. This done you will be sure that anything is in correct place.
As per the static gizmo, it is useful to make one as it will allow you to check that the HES is OK or dead and save some dollars buying new parts not needed. Of course a strobe light is way better.
Hope this helps.
P.S. : the pre-1980 R65 was rated at around 45 PS (depending on the marked they were sold) and the post 1980 were around 50 PS. The LS had the same engine as the "plain" R65.

BTW, one can make an engine run with the ignition set wrong, provided the valve lash and the carburetor are tampered accordingly... So if I where you, I would check valve lash at the proper TDC position, then return the carbs to their factory settings and then put the ignition timing at the correct spot and mark it. (It will save time next time the bean can is removed.... ) then proceed from here.

[twocyl]

You can do static test with nothing more than a test light hooked to power. Hold the light on the negative post of the coil with the switch on, roll the engine over by hand until the light goes out and check where the timing mark are.

[wilcom]

Have you checked that the flywheel had not been disturbed ?

Good thought. I checked visually in the sparky hole for TDC and looked in the timing hole and there was the OT mark staring me in the face..... that's a good thing.

I did that at 4am this morning as I don't sleep well when baby is on the lift and I am scratching my head over issues.

I did another test that failed.

I pulled the plugs and grounded them on the cylinders and could not get a spark when ignition on and rotating the motor slowly at the rotor. Yet when I spin the motor with the starter, sparks are all over the place. I was trying to do a static timing using the spark at the plug to get me close or see if I was even in the ball park.

I'm baffled why I could not get a spark rotating slowly yet could when spun by the starter??

Where is my brain failing me on this point?

[Barry]

The ckt is easy enough to cluge together but the connector is an issue. Is there any off the shelf connector that will plug into the bean can side of the wiring?

Rob Frankham mentions that it's available in the UK as a "junior power timer connector".  You could try searching for that in the US.

[mrclubike]

I would get another timing light
Some of the discount auto parts stores may  loan  them out
That way you can check the condition of the advance 

[wilcom]

I would get another timing light
Some of the discount auto parts stores may  loan  them out
That way you can check the condition of the advance 

I bought one this morning and the reading is the same z mark at idle    I tightened it back down at that point , it was that way when I opened it up and I can't get it right without jamming the bean can all the way on the stop retarded, which isn't right

[BPT]

Hey Wilcom - I've been looking for the plugs for the same reason as you are. I can't find them and can't get a straight answer as to whether another plug will fit.

I cobbled together a tester and just used small alligator clips.  I'd like to make something a bit more solid.......

Without Radio Shack it is difficult to find small parts.  I was able to get what I didn't have at Fry's, but i know not everyone has those nearby.

[wilcom]

Without Radio Shack

Yes that really hurt. When I'm on the road I used them a lot for incidentals that I forgot or need quickly....

Fry's is 55 miles away through traffic( ARRRGH ). I think I will be at Fry's or close this week end and I will go for slip on pins that fit well, I just don't want them to short together like lil alligators might. If RS had stayed with what got them there they would've been fine, but OH NO , they have to go full cellular and the competition was to great in that market. They had the hobbyist market cornered. Shudda stayed at the strip malls where rent was cheap and I would still be able to buy a hand full of over priced parts and been happy about it.

Be on the look out for a bad wiring harness that we could scavenge the connector!!!