My R65 flat quit on me...

[montmil]

... thirty miles from home on a county road.

A buddy on his R100S and I on my R65 had ridden back roads to Forestburg, Texas, this morning. We always ride the "Cowboy Way". No interstate or major highways, just nice back country roads. Our group enjoys stopping often just because we can. Anyway...

Coming home, while rolling through a corner, the bike acted as if it ran out of gas; if you might imagine an engine shutting down quickly. Almost as if the ignition had been shut off. And that's exactly what happened.

Roadside checks showed adequate fuel. Fuses were swapped out. No sparky at the plugs. Hum...

Everything under the front engine cover is OE. We pulled the front cover to check for wire issues. Can't tell much just by looking. Ditto OE for the control unit and assorted goodies along the frame's backbone under the tank.

I have both the Clymer and Haynes manuals and will go through the troubleshooting sections tomorrow. In the meantime, any veteran R65ers have a "my best guess" idea as what may have occurred? Bean can? Ignition module? I will use a DVOM to check for continuity but was wondering if it might be a "that's what it usually is" type answer.

Any ideas as to a starting place would be much appreciated. I don't want to miss too much of this great late summer riding weather. And BTW, my sweet bride loaded tie downs and a ramp into my truck and came after me. What a sweetie... I'll start using the bread bag twisties "properly". Huh? Say what? It's all made clear in this humorous and slightly off-topic thread: http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1223135282


Early structure in downtown Forestburg, Texas. My R65.


My R65 and buddy's R100S... an immaculate bike.

[not-so-fast-ed]

Monte,
My ignition switch would cut out on me for no apparent reason.  I'd wiggle the key, turn off & on and it would restart.  Replaced the switch electrical end and no more dying in the middle of a curve.
Good luck,
Ed

[montmil]

Monte,
My ignition switch would cut out on me for no apparent reason.  I'd wiggle the key, turn off & on and it would restart.  Replaced the switch electrical end and no more dying in the middle of a curve.
Good luck,  Ed

Will check it out. I have a simple 30 amp-rated toggle switch for my ignition. It was pretty cheap. I'll check it out. Good call, thanks.   Monte

[steve hawkins]

Also check out the engine kill switch on the r/h handlebar.

for its position and reliability of operation.

The previous owner of my R100 had bypassed this switch as he was having similar issues.  I have since stripped and fixed it -it is a bit fiddly though.

Time to dig out the multimeter.

Cheers

[lamont]

i got OEM ignition switches up da wazoo, if you need one, i have never had a BMW one go bad, and i replaced all the ignit switches on my guzzi's with BMW ones. sounds like a coil or bean can to me.

[Justin B.]

...or Hall sensor.  I think Robin Frankham designed a test box for the sensor and has a schematic of it on his web site...

[montmil]

i got OEM ignition switches up da wazoo, if you need one, i have never had a BMW one go bad, and i replaced all the ignit switches on my guzzi's with BMW ones. sounds like a coil or bean can to me.

...or Hall sensor.  I think Robin Frankham designed a test box for the sensor and has a schematic of it on his web site...

So far today, Monday...

My main ignition/headlight switch is a 30amp toggle. Was simple to bypass the switch and test. No spark.

Disassembled the right-hand switch assembly. Some 'green' corrosion on the copper disc in the ignition cut off portion. Cleaned and buffed. A smidge of dielectric grease for luck. Reassemble and test. No spark.

I have a Dyna coil that was installed in June of this year. Kinda doubt it's the problem, but... Can I test the coil in my shop? How to do?

The Ignition Control Module is OE. No clue if it can be tested or even if it's the issue. Note that Rick Jones has a replacement "semi-BMW" module for a good price.

Popped the lid off the bean can but "talking to it" didn't fix the non-sparking ignition. Hall sensor also popped into my simple head. Appears that everything under the front engine cover and the fuel tank -save for the coil- is OE 27-year old stock.

I hate to throw parts at a problem hoping to get lucky but I'm getting stumped. Even had to replace the 9v battery in my DVOM.

Recommendations as to test procedures and what to buy/replace first?

Appreciate the input, guys. And Lamont in Austin... I may want to upgrade my handlebar switch assemblies... just because. Glad to know you have a couple.

Taking a break right now for a cool, malt beverage.  Electrical gremlins are my least favorite issue.

Monte

[vestandpants]

monte, i too had electrical probs with mine, funnily enough when going round R/H corners it would just cut-out and then restart when I straightened up (most of the time). Previous owners had made modifications to the main ignition cable running upto the ignition switch and corrosion had set in a bad way. I also replaced the starter switch due to corrosion although I live in a temporate climate where there is a lot more moisture in the air.

I would check the block connectors under the tank (if thats where they are on your bike) and make sure all the contacts are good.

I would also do a 'trace the cable' from the block connectors to make sure there isnt excessive wear anywhere as alot of the cabling twists its way around the frame and fittings, esp around the headstock.

I would also trace the wiring to and from the coils. I know that the front coil (if yours has 2 single coils) that they are linked and the front has a connection coming from the starter motor? http://www.flickr.com/photos/22686607@N06/2186200288/in/set-72157603689753804/ (black neg one) you cannot put this wire on the rear coil, the engine will not start (from my experience).

Plus check the bean can again, if the points look worn, or they are completely melted together ... well you can guess the rest  

and thats all I can think of for the time being!

[montmil]

Good tips, Vesty!

My R65 is an '81 with electronic ignition. No point in points. I'm still running wires as you suggest. Block connectors will get the Mk 1 eyeball, too. The DVOM is a great tool.

I'm running a Dyna coil from Rick Jones since June of this year. Sure hope it hasn't gone Tango Uniform.

The Haynes manual has a very good test procedure for the Ignition Control Unit (ICU). Some folks refer to it as the ECU. All same, all same.

I'll do that test as soon as I can get away from work. After working my way through two BMW manuals, the ICU and "bean can" are looking to be likely culprits. I will test as best as I can. Hate to throw expensive parts at the bike hoping to get a winner.

Field stripping the bike has permitted me to do some other maintenance items, too. It's all good. I'm gonna figure it out... eventually.

You guys keep the tips coming. This thread will help lots of others somewhere down the road.

In the meantime, I'll just drop the top on the Cabriolet and pretend I'm on two wheels.

Monte

[Justin B.]

Put a scope on the wire coming up from the bean-can and see if you have any pulses...

[BigJohn]

Testing the ignition is not too difficult.  First, take a 12V test light and make sure you have juice at the coil when the key is turned on. This will eliminate the ignition switch and cut-off switch. If you do then remove a spark plug and lay it on the cylinder with the wire re-attached. Turn the ignition on and flip the cut-off switch on and off several times.  You will see a spark if your coil and ignition module are good. Replace plug. If you still don't have a spark when trying to start the engine now you have a bad hall sensor.  I installed a redundant sensor on both of my airheads as the R65 died one day with a bad one.  The tip off is the tach goes dead as soon as the bike looses power. They are less than $13 from Newark Electronics and if you have access to a mill and rotary table it is easy to fit the second one. These days I carry my old, but usable, crack-o-matic coil and a spare ignition module in with my spare parts kit.  With these pieces and a test light I'll never be without what I need to repair the entire ignition system.  I bought the spare module at a U-Pull-It for $5.00.  It came from an early 90's Volkswagen Quantum, or some such, which used the identical type of system as our bikes.  I bought the whole distributor too as it had a spare sensor and other hardware which I could use in the bike in an emergency.

[montmil]

Put a scope on the wire coming up from the bean-can and see if you have any pulses...

OK, Justin... You're gonna have to break in down for me like you did the Marines... "Barney-style".

Scope? Got one on my rifle but no electronic test gear that sophisticated! Is there only one wire from the bean can? Little help for this stumblin' cat.  Thanks!

[montmil]

Testing the ignition is not too difficult.  First, take a 12V test light and make sure you have juice at the coil when the key is turned on. This will eliminate the ignition switch and cut-off switch. If you do then remove a spark plug and lay it on the cylinder with the wire re-attached. Turn the ignition on and flip the cut-off switch on and off several times.  You will see a spark if your coil and ignition module are good. Replace plug. If you still don't have a spark when trying to start the engine now you have a bad hall sensor...

Excellent test sequence, John. Thanks a lot.

I found the cut-off switch to be worn out and negative function. Bypassed the switch and tested for a spark, per your instructions, but no joy. Believe I'll send the "can" to Rick Jones for an overhaul.Also need to contact "Son of Sanford" and score a functional switch assembly.

I'll post up progress as it happens. I really appreciate the responses and help from all you cats here in the R65 asylum.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]


Interior view of the lame cut-off switch area. Cleaned it and talked nice to it but it remained negative function. Must place in on my "Offerings to the Gods of BMW" shelf.

Monte

[nothing]

The ICU is the same as is found in many VWs - you may have a spare already, or at least a known good one on the Cabriolet to swap and test. My bike is currently running with an ICU from a junkyard first generation Jetta - cost me all of $4.

[msbuck]

Alternator rotor?  That's what happened on Graham's '81 R100.