The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: Brake Pads  (Read 2971 times)

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 05:36:25 PM »
Yeah, FA57's, not FA77's .

I don't know why I keep making that mistake !!!! ::)

When I ordered EBC pads for my '81 R65, I ordered FA18's, but like I said, I modified them into FA57's to fit the ATE calipers .
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 06:06:50 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline BPT

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 720
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 05:45:43 PM »
Barry - Forgot to ask about one of your posts above:  What is the red rubber grease?  And when you did an overhaul, did you completely rebuild?  I've seen some kits, wasn't sure if it was a good idea to do at a particular interval or just if you start having problems.
1983 R65 w/ Velorex 562 Sidecar

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 09:50:05 PM »
Quote
Barry - Forgot to ask about one of your posts above:  What is the red rubber grease?  And when you did an overhaul, did you completely rebuild?  I've seen some kits, wasn't sure if it was a good idea to do at a particular interval or just if you start having problems.

I suspect Barry means something like PBR rubber grease. It is expensive and for the few times you would use it,  you are better off using brake fluid as your assembly lube - bit messy but easily cleaned off with plain old water once the caliper is together.

If you are going to refurbish your own calipers the two things that seem to cause the most problems are:-

1/. Getting the old sealing ring out - They can be very difficult and you heve limited purchase to get to them. My solution is to lay the caliper halves out level in the back yard (with bleed nipple(s) fitted, then fill the caliper bore with Shelllite (Or Coleman Fuel for the US participants) followed by a match. After the fire goes out the seal will be mostly burnt out and the remains come out easily with the tool I am about to describe.

2/. Over time the combination of small amounts of escaped brake fluid, water and Dog knows what takes up residence behind the seal, when you do get the seal out there is frequently a nasty, lumpy residue remaining in the seal "alcove" which will prevent the new seal from seating correctly and in turn prevent the piston from going past the seal. I make a tool using a small screw driver whose blade width is a near as possible match to the width of the seal groove. I then bend the tip of the screwdriver 90 degrees so that I can use it as a scraper to clean the bottom of the seal groove. I find that after using fire to burn out the old seals that the "residue" comes out much more easily than it does otherwise. It is still however a long job, put aside about an hour for each caliper. be careful not to bear on the seal groove sides, you don't want to make them wider.....
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5143
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 02:47:48 AM »
Perhaps red rubber grease is peculiar to the UK but it's very commonly available.  Castrol is the best known brand but there are dozens of suppliers on ebay and elsewhere.

Being a vegetable oil based lubricant this grease does not harm rubber and can be used for its protection, lubrication and preservation. It can also be a great help during assembly of units containing parts made of natural or synthetic rubber and even plastic (installing bushings, for example).

Because of a unique combination of two of its qualities: natural rubber compatibility and brake fluid compatibility the main use of Red Rubber Grease is in hydraulic brake/clutch applications.


People lather the stuff all over inside calipers and it doesn't cause a problem with the brake fluid.

There are other brake grease based on silicone that I've used in the past and they are fine too. I worry about copper grease being considered as brake grease because even if only used on the back of the pads the mineral oil content will attack the dust seal rubbers.


« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 02:52:59 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 12:24:34 PM »
I've never seen that product here in the US .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5143
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 12:43:38 PM »
Brake grease in the US may use a synthetic base which will probably be silicone or possibly this PBR that Tony mentioned.

I was curious to know what PBR grease was and it seems to be Castor oil based so again not petroleum and safe for rubber.

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline BPT

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 720
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2016, 01:21:13 PM »
Some Googling makes it look like the PBR is an Aussie product. I've never heard of any of these mentioned but that means nothing since I haven't done tons of brake work in my time.  Here's one that I found in the US:  https://www.alconkits.com/tools-and-supplies/tools/alcon-caliper-grease-replaces-pbr-rubber-grease-detail

At least now I've heard of this stuff and have an idea what to look for if the time comes.  So do you all do this rebuild as a matter of maintenance or just if you have a problem?  From Tony's description it doesn't sound like anything you'd want to do unless absolutely necessary.  Could make a good video for YouTube though........
1983 R65 w/ Velorex 562 Sidecar

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5143
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2016, 02:22:11 PM »
Quote
do you all do this rebuild as a matter of maintenance or just if you have a problem?  

Generally only when there's a problem and the condition that indicates a problem is the pistons starting to seizing up.  For anyone with the ATE caliper the pistons are both prone to corrosion and at least in the UK, very expensive.  So a preventative maintenance approach might be a good idea.

Here a test you could carry out:

Remove the front wheel and apply the brake while watching the pistons. If only one of them moves which to be honest is most often the case then the one that doesn't may be getting stiff. The other thing to watch for is that when you release the brake lever the pistons visibly retract back in again by a small amount.  If you don't see that then the piston has started to seize.  You might free it up by exercising the piston in an out a few times while holding back the free piston with a G clamp.  It's a good idea to remove the dust seals while doing this so that you can see any corrosion and apply some brake grease on the exposed section of the pistons before pushing them back in and refitting the dust seals.

The real indicator of a healthy caliper is that the front wheel will spin freely by hand with zero drag from the pads.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 02:37:15 PM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline BPT

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 720
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2016, 03:35:27 PM »
Thanks again, Barry. Now I have a couple of things to look at.  I'll definitely hold off on planning to rebuild anything for a while unless those tests indicate a problem.  

As of now I have no complaints about the braking itself.  Just that the screeching is very loud and obnoxious.  Maybe, hopefully, I'll get lucky and find out it's just something with the pads and not the caliper.
1983 R65 w/ Velorex 562 Sidecar

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2016, 05:59:52 PM »
My '81 had brakes squealing when I rode it home from the dealer when I bought  it .

Seems the OEM pads are prone to do this .

I replaced the original pads at 55,000 miles put OEM's back on and they squealed .

No issues with the EBC pads .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline BPT

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 720
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Brake Pads
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2016, 08:17:52 PM »
Who knows, maybe I've got stock pads on there and that's the problem?  It'd be nice if it's that simple and I could take care of it easily just by switching pads, if that's the case.  

I have some other more pertinent things to take care of first but the brake noise is something that is always on my mind as soon as I ride and hit the first stop sign.
1983 R65 w/ Velorex 562 Sidecar