Brake Pads

[BPT]

Are brake pads a subject like oil and tires?  I have 2 questions about these, hoping there is some objective advice available.  

I have an ungodly (sometimes embarrassing) screech to mine, been there since I bought it.  It's not there every single time I hit the brakes but most of the time it is.  My local guru says that I am probably not hitting them heavily enough.  And I saw something on Snowbum's site alluding to a similar theory.  I have not taken them out yet to try and sand/scuff them and I see that Snowbum also says that sometimes a thorough caliper cleaning will help.

  So what's the thinking on the board about this?  Is it really my riding/braking?  Something I can do differently there?  Should I try to scuff the pads and grease the pins (it seems that greasing anything is either not recommended or won't do much good, according to what I have been reading?) and see if that makes a difference?  The brakes do seem to work OK, just the screeching is obnoxious and ear piercing.

And the next question is about pads themselves, when it comes time to replace.  Stock BMW, EBC, other brands?  How to go about choosing?  I figure that this is where the opinion part might come in but thought that there might be some guidance such as "If you ride like xxxx, then you might want to look into xxxx type".  Or something like that..........  

Can you give me a starting point on this?  I have the single caliper Brembo set-up.

                       Again, thanks in advance.

[montmil]

Possibly try some made-for disc pad grease on the back of the pads. That ugly sound is often caused by the pads 'chattering'. It may also be the pads way of asking to be replaced.

Those stainless steel brakes rotors may wear faster if metallic pads are used. I find the EBC "organics" to be good performers in the R65 and the swinging calipers on the "S".

Let's now get into replacement brake hose choices.   Duck and Cover

[BPT]

When I first got the bike the pads still had some meat left and it had this horrible noise.  But could be by now or maybe just shot so figured I'd get prepared for that.  

There seems to be some differing opinions on the grease thing so that's why I asked here.  Some say it won't do anything and others even say you shouldn't do it (can't remember why...).  I am with you and I know about the chattering with cars and that it is necessary to use grease on install, not just if you have a problem later.  So that's why I thought it might be worth a try.  That'll probably be the easiest, cheapest first thing to do.

Thanks for the objective tips on the pads, that's what I was looking for.  If those work well and put less wear on the disc then that sounds good.  I have a little extra weight from the car, but at the same time I won't be doing any high speed racing on mountain twistys, so I think that I just need a good, basic pad.

Hahaha about the lines.  That will be something a little ways out for me.  I know that some seem to think that the stock BMW lines are perfect for our bikes.  And I also know that with other things I have ridden/driven, stainless steel lines were always a big improvement.  No idea when I will need to replace these but maybe I should start the research now......?    

                              Thanks

[Bob_Roller]

I put EBC organic pads on my '81 R65, saw no improvement in dry braking, but a significant increase in wet braking .

There is a product Permatex Disc Brake Quiet, it's an aerosol can that has a light blue material, spray it on the back of the pad that contacts the piston, keep it off of the friction pad, let it dry for  few hours then install the pads, it kind of acts like an adhesive that glues the pad to the piston, stops the squeal, but the pad comes right off, as long as the parts are cool .

Another trick, is to use a rattle can of automotive paint on the back of the pads, does the same thing as Permatex, but stays glued together when you try to remove the pads .

As far as brake lines, that's your choice, but your lines are probably 33 years old, wouldn't be a bad idea to replace them .

After you do some searching, you'll find that stainless lines are fairly close to OEM rubber lines in cost .

[Barry]

When I've had brake squeal it's been because the pads were getting glazed due to them not retracting away from the disc on release of the brake. The real problem was therefore stiction in the caliper pistons. Once that was resolved by a caliper overhaul and assembly with red rubber grease the squealing went away.  If the wheel is spun by hand does it spin freely for several revolutions before coming to a stop ?  If it doesn't then the pistons are not moving freely enough. You can actually see how they should work by getting down close to the caliper while applying and releasing the brake. On release you should see the pads pull back from the disc with a few thou of daylight between them.

If it isn't due to glazing then I've never had any luck with grease on the back of the pads although I can see Bob's sticky stuff working a lot better.

[BPT]

Thanks Bob and Barry.  The guy that  told me I was being too light on them suggested that they could be glazed now and I could try scuffing them up.  I didn't think to check to see if they were retracting all the way.  That's an easy start, I'll have a look at that and try the wheel spin test.  Likewise, I'll look into the adhesive stuff.  I had seen that but wasn't exactly sure what it was supposed to accomplish.  Makes sense now.

I don't want to spend money that I don't have to but, if worse comes to worse, and the above tips don't result in any improvement, I can get new pads and start from scratch.  At least they aren't a ton of money.  Is it best to pull the current pads off and use the part number to cross reference?  Seems like I saw a post here recently where the pads that are supposed to be on a particular caliper weren't actually the correct ones?  And it seems like I have seen that when I was looking on eBay and places like that where there were more than one that said they fit mine.

Regarding lines - yeah Bob, you're correct, they're probably due for replacing.  I figured I'd deal with the things that I know are problematic first, then get to things like that.  Then there is figuring out which ones to get.  I saw what you referenced - that the stainless ones weren't much different in price.  But seems like, as Montmil hinted to, that some folks have some strong opinions on which to use.  I'm ignorant on the subject so wasn't sure which way to go.  From my experience in other things, the stainless versions were almost always preferred and if the price was close, it was a no brainer.  But sounds like with these machines, some seem to think the stock BMW rubber is good.  So that will be what I have to wade through before I can do that.

            Thanks again for all of your time, patience and knowledge.

[Bob_Roller]

The pads need to be matched to the caliper, starting with the '82 model year, the calipers are Brembo, unless a previous owner has replaced them .

From the beginning of R65 production, the '79 model year, up to the '81 model year ATE calipers were used and require a different pad .

Some early production '82 model year bikes came with ATE calipers, the factory used up the remaining ATE calipers from the previous year production .

You should have Brembo caliper(s), they are painted black .

[BPT]

Yeah, Bob, mine are Brembo for sure.  What I meant was is it possible that there could be multiple part numbers for pads to fit these and should I match numbers to the pads in there already?  I didn't want to "go by the book" and order some and then find out that there might be more than one type.

I'm fuzzy on the details but I remember a post here recently about pads and the guy went by what should go with his but they didn't fit.  Can't remember his year, brand, etc. so maybe it doesn't apply here.

I have a VW that is kinda/sorta a mid-year model.  With certain parts, my mechanic will tell me to make sure take the part with me to match, even at the dealer, because mine has some things that don't match what the book says.    So I am used to this type of German confusion....  

[Bob_Roller]

From my experience, most sites will only have R65 from 1982 and up for pads .

I found this out when I ordered pads for my '81 R65, I purchased them and found out they were for Brembo calipers .

You can modify the back plate on the later model pads to fit the ATE calipers, about 5 minutes with a die grinder and a carbide rotary file .

[BPT]

I found some numbers for a variety of years of R65's and looks like mine should be an FA 18 for EBC organic?  They list my year as an R65 T....  I don't think that I have ever seen a "T" designation.  But that is what EBC says, and it does say it's for a single disc Brembo.

[BPT]

Sorry, I don't know how to copy a quote the proper way.  Here's the post I was thinking of.  His is an '86 so maybe not an issue for me, but it did involve the same type of pads.  I just wanted to make sure I was looking for the correct ones. since I hate dealing with returns and shipping.

**********************************************************
Bob_Roller wrote on 03/17/16 at 10:59:38:
What calipers do you have, from the look of your pad, you have Brembo calipers .
I may be mistaken, but FA77 pads are for ATE calipers and won't work on Brembo calipers .
If you have Brembo's you need FA18 pads .


Good catch, Bob. I missed the pad number. Matt's bike is a 1986 model so Brembo calipers and FA18 pads it is.  


I've been down this road before!  I definitely have a Brembo caliper, but it definitely takes the FA77 pads, not the FA18.  This time I even measured the pads and consulted the EBC sales guide. http://ebcbrakes.com/Assets/ecatalogues/2016_USA_Motorcycle_Catalogue/USA_Motorc... Page 221 has the FA18 dimensions, page 239 has the FA77 dimensions.  I also cross-referenced part numbers!  My last receipt, and realoem.com both say I need part number 34112331177, which motobins shows to be 60mm wide.

Not sure why getting brake pads for my R65 is such a kerfluffle, but using the FA18s actually was a proximate cause of getting the Spiegler rotor

[Bob_Roller]

The difference in the pads, is the pins that hold the pad in place, the ATE caliper pads have two ' ears' on each end where the pins the hold the pads in, the Brembo pads are straight across the top, with a small indentation in the middle for a small pin that supports the spring .

The dimensions are the for each pad .

[Matt Chapter]

The dimensions are the for each pad .

I think you mean the dimensions are the same for each pad, and I can't disagree more strongly.  The FA18 and FA77 have different backing and swept area dimensions.  It was listed in the ebc catalog in my original post, but that link is dead.  However, from Amazon.com:

FA18: 6.7 x 5.4 x 0.3 inches
FA77: 6.1 x 3.6 x 0.4 inches

To answer the original poster's question, you should be ok with the FA18.  The FA77s are for '85 and and newer R65s that share components with the R80.  Definitely compare backing and pad areas on any new pads to your old ones!  I've also seen pads packaged and marked incorrectly, i.e. FA77s in an FA18 package.  Talk about confusing.

[BPT]

Thanks for chiming in Matt.  Sounds like it might be a good idea to pull mine out and check before ordering.  I was hoping to avoid that just because I hate to do something twice.  But not a difficult thing, I suppose.  Maybe I can take it apart, try some of the screech reducing ideas and check then.  Thanks for the heads up.

[Barry]

To complete the picture the early models with ATE calipers take FA57's

I think Bob may have meant that FA57's and FA18's are the pads that are similar.