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Author Topic: Equivalece between needle clip position and needle  (Read 4173 times)

Offline Barry

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Re: Equivalece between needle clip position and needle
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2013, 04:06:03 PM »
I've seen several anecdotal accounts saying one clip position is equivalent to 3 changes in needle jet size so I decided I would measure my own 46-241 needles to see if that was true. I calculated the change in flow area for small increments across the full lift of the needle and then compared that with the increase in flow area resulting from a needle jet change.

It turned out to be relatively straightforward to do the calculations as the tapered section of the needle is a simple straight sided truncated cone that reduces from 2.45mm to 1.2mm along it's 23mm length. I plotted the needle diameter at 1mm intervals and calculated the change in area for 1 needle clip position.

The effects are non linear so the answer turns out to be more complicated than just saying it's a ratio of 3 although that is probably a reasonable average at mid throttle. Anyone who has tried it knows that 1 clip position is a big change but the flow area change turned out to be a lot bigger than I expected.

My factory settings are 2.66 needle jet and needle at position 2 so that is the base line for my comparisons as shown by the green column in the  table of figures and graph attached. A summary of the results is as follows:-

Increasing the needle jet from 2.66 to 2.68 results in a jet flow area increase of 10% at initial lift reducing to 2% at max. lift

Likewise reducing the needle jet from 2.66 to 2.64 results in a jet flow area reduction of 10% at initial lift down to 2% at max. lift

Lifting the needle from P2 to P3 results in a jet flow area increase of 44% at initial lift reducing to 5% at max. lift

Combining a 2.64 jet with needle in position 3 still gives 34% increase at initial lift falling to 3% at maximum lift,

Base data for the calcs:-
Needle Dia              2.45
Tip Dia            1.2
Cone length      23
2.64 jet Area      5.47
2.66 jet Area      5.56
2.68 jet Area      5.64

 


« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 04:22:14 PM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Equivalece between needle clip position and needle
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2013, 03:58:10 PM »
Hello !
Today I've made a mad discovery...
I took the bike on a long trip (I normally use it to go to work, 8 km long trip) to test my fork after some work on it.
I was very surprised to encounter a very poor behaviour even when the bike had fully warmed up after 20 km.  She had the same problems I had when trying the jet setting of a post  '83 bike !
So I came back home thinking it could be a problem with the ignition.
I took the timing light and was unable to make it work using the right spark cable as a trigger. So maybe all my trouble trying to get her running properly with the settings I try to devise for 95-E10 (95 gasoline with 10 % ethanol) were caused by a bad ignition cable...
So stupid....
I thought the problems I had today could be : bad timing; clogged fuel lines; dead spark plug; Octane far too low or too lean (way too lean).
So as the timing is good (up to max advance), I'll try another cable tomorrow.....