Synthetic Lube ?

[raygun]

Is it recommended to renew the fluids in the R65 with synthetic? Mainly concerned with the gearbox, driveshaft and final gear.

[nhmaf]

Personally, I would do so in the engine IF the previous owner had been using them, or if I had been in
and changed seals, otherwise I might not, unless I was prepared for the possibility of
leaks beginning to appear.   Sometimes, but not always, these oils have a tendency
to cause leaks in engines to appear where there weren't leaks before while using din0-oil.  
Perhaps a coincidence, but I'm not so sure.  As for the driveshaft, gearbox, and final
drive, I don't see any issues with making the switch if you want to do so.

Certainly, the synthetic oils will work as well or better than the dino oil and can usefully
extend your fluid changing intervals.

[steve hawkins]

It is my personal opinion that you are throwing good money after bad especially if you are sticking to recomended service intervals.  

Synthetic lub is significantly more expensive than dino, and the oil is not in the engine long enough and not really in the gearbox/final drive long enough either.  You are going to triple your lub costs.....if you stick to the oil change interval.

There is not doubt that it is better, but at what cost and how much better is it really?  And does your bike really warrant it.  It is hardly a fire-breathing racer is it!  Is it?  It is a low tech aircooled engined that is tuned for longevity.  If you are down the local drag strip, pouring methanol in it then that might be another matter.

Fully synthetic is designed for modern highly tuned, liquid cooled, engines which are built to significantly higher tolerances.  They also have longer service intervals and the oil stays in the engine/gearbox for much longer.  That is how they justify the cost.

I am sticking to the factory oil change recomendations and I am going to stick with the dino.

This is contentious - but do not lose sight of the fact that many of these bikes go round the clock and more on the dino oil with no issues.

At the end of the day it is your money.  You could spend it on some trick bits for you and the bike?

Steve H

[airhead]

Steve, I think you'll find using synth in the box and shaft/final drive, you won't have to change out the lube as often as there is less metal shedding. The reason when using dino is mainly to flush out the metal floating around in there. For me, a litre of dino is $12 as opposed to $17 for synth which easily lasts twice the interval, so I am in front, with a less worn gearbox. In fact, I'll admit to having last changed it three years ago and 20000km
I pull the mag plug every year and barely, if ever, have any paste on it and small samples don't sparkle in the sun, unlike the plugs and samples of dino lubed bikes I've seen that are flushed every year.
BMW's HP2's have permanently sealed final drives running synth.

Bill.................;-)

[raygun]

Steve, I asked mainly about the gearbox , driveshaft and final specifically, Since I have it all torn down. My real question is has anyone had problems in these areas from running synthetics. I'm aware of the benefits of the synthetic lube and believe the benefits are worth the added cost. I was'nt sure how the seals hold up to synthetics, thats what prompted my question. I do know that the synthetics run much cooler and extend bearing life and run more effeciently. To me that is worth the cost.

[Justin B.]

I haven't had any problems in any of our bikes with synthetic in the gearbox or final drive.  I also found that using the heavier weight synthetic makes my 1-2 upshift a bit smoother/easier...

[MrRiden]

Steve,
The only downside I'm aware of in using synth, besides cost, is that its rumored to have an effect on the seals. I'm told that Dyno oil swells seals in a particular way and switching to 100% synth causes the seals to shrink. Can anyone confirm? An alternative might be a "blend" oil. Of course If your using all new seals then this is a moot point.
rich

[airhead]

Talking from my own experience and the fact my bike has run semi synth in the engine, and full synth in the drivetrain for the majority of its life (I promised the one only PO I would continue using it), the seals are fine. The only weeping of oil I have as of now is from the pushrod seals and the barrel base on one side. However these are only surface migration weeps with no drips (except the one on the seat!!) and pretty normal for even Dino lubed bikes. Maybe formulations have changed or it was a rumour spread by the Dino makers.

Bill.....................;-)

[Justin B.]

The leakage myth was perpetuated by people that put synthetic in old engines with tired seals.  The synthetic is much more "slippery" than dino so if a seal was marginal it wouldn't keep in the synthetic.  I have also read that synthetic cleans so much better that it can clean off crud buildup that was actually keeping things sealed up.

[Bob_Roller]

My experience with full synthetic oil, Mobil 1 motorcycle oil, I put it in the R65 in November '99, in March 2000 the rear main seal started leaking to where I had to do something about it. I replaced the rear main seal, and 4 weeks later the rear main seal started leaking the same amount as the old main seal. I drained the Mobil 1 out of the bike and replaced it with Spectro Golden 20-50w, ( the oil that I had been using for the previous 15 years ) and the leak went away with the next ride. I personally won't use a full synthetic in the engine again. I'm not so sure about using a full synthetic in the drive train either, as these seals are made from the same material as the rear main seal, Viton. I use BMW gear oil and change it at least once a year. When I had my transmission overhauled about 2 months ago, other than rust damage to the bearings from water contamination from a bad speedometer boot, no problems at all at 80,000 miles. I'd like to hear about other owners experiences with synthetic oil in the drive train, as with the unrelenting heat here in Phoenix, I'd like to have that little extra protection for peace of mind!

[Semper Gumby]

Hi Raygun,

I also use the Specro Golden 20W50 year round in the engine which is a Synth-Dino blend.  I use a Synth-Dyno Blend in the Tranny drive shaft and Final drive - Valvolene 80W90 in the winter and 85W140 in the Summer.  It comes in the blue bottles.  I opt to change out the gear oils twice a year because my bike spends a lot of time out of doors in a company parking lot.  This way if a moisture problem shows it head I see it quick (Chocolate gear oil) before too much damage is done.  Use of the heavier weight oil on the summer is entirely subjective (it juts shifts better).  My gear box is not making any un-toward noises yet at 75,000 miles although I did replace the unversal joint in the drive shaft before setting out cross country last September because it was a bit notchy.  

TTFN,

[raygun]

I have never heard of the Spectro-Golden. Who makes it and who carries it?

[Bob_Roller]

It's manufactured by Spectro Oils, it's motorcycle specific oil, only found at bike shops or on-line suppliers. Cost is about $10.00 US per quart.

[raygun]

Oh, thats right I remember now of doing a search on spectro -oils. After looking on the back of a BMW oil bottle and seeing who made the BMW oil, I thought was overpriced and tried to see if they sell direct. They don't, but after checking out the distributers of Spectro I realized that The BMW dealer was not out of line.

[Bob_Roller]

Not to add any confusion to this, but on my '02 R1150R, I had difficulty shifting using the standard BMW gear lube. I opted for Redline MTX gear lube , and it reallly improved the shifting. Cost was about $7.00 US about 3 years ago for a quart.