timing chain

[Darwin_R65]

Well with all the talk everyone else was making over clatter at low idle being timing chain, i decided my symptoms were the same I'd better change it.
First hassle was the front cover wouldn't come off till i moved the exhaust system out of the way, cover collides with the bar going between the two sides.

Then I get the covers off and look for the link in the chain, and there isn't one. I think this can't be, even the BMW manual shows a link.

Aha and ingenous previous (owner or mechanic) has installed the link backwards. How did they do that???
The clip faces backward towards the engine.

How am I going to do this?

In my attempt, I lose the clip as it comes off and guess where it goes, straight into the sump. Well I guess i was going to change the oil anyway.

I'll try and drain the oil, strain it somehow and see if the clip comes out with the oil, otherwise I'll have to drop the sump.

Don't you just love simple jobs that go wrong.

John

[Bob_Roller]

Obviously too late for your usage, but the first thing you do after you remove the front case, is to place a shop rag in the opening into the oil sump .

You're not the first person to drop a link down that hole .

Try using a magnetic pick-up tool inserted into the oil sump drain hole, may save you from removing it .

[ukzknos]

Tips from Snowbum:


Installing the fishclip:
Method #1:  Installing the link on the rear side. This is done on SIMPLEX (1979+) chains.  Push some cloth into the 7:00 (+-) case hole at the cam gear area and tape over the hole.   Arrange the chain so that you have the break right there at about 7:00.  Install, maybe half way or tad more, the OLD master LINK, from the front.   This will hold the chain together!   Use some sort of tool to install the link from the rear, which then pushes the old link out as the new one is pushed forward.  Install the link plate and clip on the front.  The engine rotates clockwise so install the open end of the fish clip pointing the other way.   Before doing anything more, double check that the crankshaft is still at OT, and that the crank and cam sprocket marks line up!   As a double check on THAT, when the crank is at OT, its keyway is at 9:00, the cam keyway is at 12:00, and the marks line up.
If you cannot get the master link into the chain, using the 7:00 position, install in from the front, clips on rear; or, do the master link at a place other than 7:00.


Method #2:  Install the master link itself from the front. This is done on DUPLEX chains that have master links.  Then put the clip in from the rear.   Try doing this at about 2:00 or 4:00 in the CAMshaft sprocket area.  Some prefer 10:00.

No matter what you do, be sure that the tail of the fishclip (assuming you have a single fish type here...there are two-piece round clips) is installed so the round nose is leading in the direction of rotation (CW facing front).   Confused?...  if the fishclip is on the left side as you face the front, the round nose of the fishclip points upwards; downwards if the fishclip is on the right side as you face the front.  

There are some articles on doing timing chains on the airheads.org website that may help you install the clip(s).

[montmil]

The master link clip is likely very close -just inside the opening you will remember to stuff with paper toweling next time. Use one of those cheap-o extension magnet sticks and fish around. I hooked mine that way. Are you sure it went into the block? I often find small bits like that well away from the geographic center of the R65... sproing!

Guess what? The 'sperts will tell you the master link should be installed with the clip facing the engine block. "They" say it will be less likely to get knocked off. Well, I say "they" can come over and fit the clip on my next timing chain job. A perpetuated BMW urban legend, me thinks.

IMHO, there's nothing on either side of the chain run within reach of that little fish. During a prior timing session with my "newest" old R65, I noted the clip is easily accessible on the exterior side of the chain. That's where it happily remains.

Just be sure to remember the mantra, "little fish swims downstream" when refitting the master link clip... on whichever side of the chain you wish.

[smiley=2cents.gif] and worth every penny.    Monte

[Darwin_R65]

my other issue is when I removed the chain, one sprocket moved, but I'm not sure which way. Timing mark on camshaft sprocket very obvious, crankshaft sprocket, I can't find.

Maybe I should have given this to a mechanic from the start.

[ukzknos]

one sprocket moved, but I'm not sure which way

Darwin

Make sure you are 100% confident that you've got this sorted before turning the engine over or you may bend a few valves!

[nhmaf]

At least check with the OT timing mark in the timing inspection hole on the crankshaft position, and the timing marks on the camshaft sprocket and case as a sanity check.

[Bob_Roller]

If you look at the gear on the camshaft real close, you can just barely see the timing mark on one of the teeth .

[ukzknos]

IMHO, there's nothing on either side of the chain run within reach of that little fish. During a prior timing session with my "newest" old R65, I noted the clip is easily accessible on the exterior side of the chain. That's where it happily remains.

Monte this could open up an interesting debate (as well as making the job 'more relaxing').

Has anyone else replaced the clip on the front side?

Steve K

[Bob_Roller]

I replaced the chain on my '81 R65 about 12 years ago, it was a factory installation ( I know this, as I'm the original/only owner), and it was on the front side of the chain .

A few things that I failed to mention, when I got the gears lined up before removing the chain, I cleaned a tooth on the crank shaft gear, and the cam gear, and placed a dab of touch-up paint on the tooth of the gear, and a dab of paint on the engine case, just to be sure if anything moved, you would catch it before final assembly .

Also, I would remove the spark plugs, I suspect, that one cylinder would have some pressure in it, and after removing the chain, the crankshaft may be free to move until the pressure goes down in the cylinder .

[ukzknos]

Bob

You didn't specifically say but I assume you also replaced the clip on the front side?

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

ukzknos,

I like what you quoted from Snowbum:

Install, maybe half way or tad more, the OLD master LINK, from the front. This will hold the chain together! Use some sort of tool to install the link from the rear, which then pushes the old link out as the new one is pushed forward.Install the link plate and clip on the front.

[Bob_Roller]

Bob

You didn't specifically say but I assume you also replaced the clip on the front side?

Yes, I installed the master link from the back side, and put the clip on the 'easy' side .

[ukzknos]

I like what you quoted from Snowbum:

Rob well spotted!

10/10 for observation and I guess that confirmation from the 'oracle' settles the debate too.

 8-)

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I have only replaced a timing chain once, on my R65 with the 1st engine (   ).
But it was a long time ago, and I was working at a small dealership at the time, so I had access to tools and knowledge that I wouldn't have, otherwise.

21 years ago, now that I think about it!