Oil filter change... again

[montmil]

I know this has been discussed previously however I can't locate the thread I'm looking for, so...?

My 1981 R65 oil filter is secured by: Cover plate, paper gasket, white O-ring and the metal shim. I'm using the "bendy" filter but that's not related to my question.

Is the paper gasket supposed to be used between the engine crankcase and the filter cover? I seem to recall some articles stating that the paper gasket is not required. I don't see why it would be deleted. Different BMW models?  Little help here, please?

Oil pressure has always been good. No leaks or drip. I don't want to fix something if it ain't broke.

I'm going to leave the engine "open" until I can confirm "gasket or no gasket". No sense wasting expensive dino oil. Thanks,

Monte

[Bob_Roller]

Monte,

You have the parts sequence correct, paper gasket goes between the filter cover, and the engine case, o-ring, then the metal washer..

A debate remains between riders, as to remove the gasket or not.

Best that I can tell, at one point in time, and I don't know when, that there was some manufacturing variances, that the metal insert that the metal ring rests on, was put in to far, or the metal insert was not of the correct dimensions.

If it was to far in, the o-ring would not be compressed enough, to do it's job and lead to reduced oil pressure, and after a while engine bearing damage would occur.

I remember an article that stated the depth that the metal insert should be, but I have forgotten the exact dimension.

I personally have the original gasket on my filter cover, after 28 years it doesn't want to come off without a fight, so I leave it on.

[montmil]

Thanks, Bob. I'm with you on this question.

BTW, I found the article that got me confused/concerned.

http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html

Now off to the neighborhood Ace Hdwr to  get a length of vinyl tubing. Will attach it to my plastic funnel and eliminate my usual oil change refill mess... fingers crossed.

Monte

[Justin B.]

I believe there is a good discussion of this on snowbums site and ways of determining whether a gasket is needed.  I personally don't use the gasket on any of mine...

[montmil]

Read both the "large-a-dare" site info plus Raccoon Guy. Snowman left me confused with eye strain.

Did check several BMW dealers and the BMW OE oil filter "kit" -Part # 11009056145- includes the paper gasket, O-ring and shim plus the bendy Mahle OX37 oil filter. Chicago BMW has the best price at $16.02.

I kept the paper gasket.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Monte

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I gave up on the paper gasket a long time ago, and have never been happier.  But who knows what my new engine will like.

Metal ring against the engine, white o-ring against the cover.

[MrRiden]

Got a veneer caliper? Measure the distance from the outside surface of the engine case to the edge of the metal oil filter canister. How deep is it? Don't have one? [I suspect you do] Borrow or buy a cheapie this one will do and you'll use it again http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98563
 Then ya need to do some math. What your shooting for is a gap of about 3.1-3.8mm to squash the O ring in. you'll be creating this gap using the cover gasket [or not] and metal shims. Is your canister depth 3.0 or less? Yer gonna need that paper gasket. Get an accurate measurement & I can tell ya what you'll need to use.
rich

[nhmaf]

Yes, Rich is on the right track - if your internal canister depth is less than 3.0mm then the paper gasket is used on the outer cover to take up some extra space and avoid over-compressing the white O ring.
The paper gasket is also used with earlier models with a center bolt in
the middle of an inner cover, or in certain cases with oil coolers.   It does get annoyingly complex for what should be a simple, routine task!

[Justin B.]

Monte, don't buy the BMW filters anymore, get the Mahle filters.  They are the OEM for the BMW filter and only cost a bit more than $10.

[montmil]

Monte, don't buy the BMW filters anymore, get the Mahle filters.  They are the OEM for the BMW filter and only cost a bit more than $10.

I'm using the Mahle OX37 two-piece "bendy" filter.

I have a nice vernier caliper and will take measurements next time on the 81. I'll measure the 83 when it's time for the next change.

BTW, Snowbum sez 4K miles is a good interval between changes. I can change oil at a particular mileage or by engine run time. My cool Vapor digi system has a feature like an aircraft Hobbs meter. The Vapor ART (Absolute Run Time) is something to consider if you do a lot of in-town riding with start-stop-idle in traffic riding.

[Darwin_R65]

I just changed my oil on the weekend.
Bought a kit from munichmotorcycles in Perth, it came with the gasket.

But the white o-ring was replaced with a black one in the kit.

When I pulled it apart, metal washer against the case then o-ring. Gasket between cover and case.

When I drained the oil, it was VERY thin, I bought some mineral 20W50 and put that in, engine is now sounds much less clunky.

I'm a bit worried though, I ran the engine with the dip stick out and there's definitely pressure back into the sump, the puffing air from the oil filler hole felt like I had the spark plug removed with the engine running. Pressure bypassing the rings methinks.

While I'm at it is the oil level checked with the dipstick screwed back in or just resting on it's shoulder?

Also when doing up the last bolt it never nipped up as such, firm pressure against a stripped thread. AAAARGH. It hasn't leaked yet, but I've bought some permatex liquid stripped thread repair, and might give that a go this weekend just to be safe.

John

[nhmaf]

John,

Measure the oil level with the dispstick cap unscrewed and resting on the shoulder.   It might not be as bad as you think with the pressure thing - I think all these engines have some amount of crankcase pulses.  Do make sure that your crankcase breather hose isn't blocked up.   ARe you seeing a significant amount of engine oil in the air filter or carbs ?

[Bob_Roller]

Monte, don't buy the BMW filters anymore, get the Mahle filters.  They are the OEM for the BMW filter and only cost a bit more than $10.

Justin,

Who are you getting your filters from, the last filter I got from the local independent BMW near me,was charging around $19 for a hinged oil filter for oil-cooler equipped bikes.

[Justin B.]

I used to get them from Eurotech Motorsports but they sold all of their Airhead business to flugelnus.com and they are $12.50 for the "bendy" and $10.95 for the straight  over there.  I see that Euro Motoelectrics carries filters and claims they are OEM but I am waiting for a response as to brand...

[montmil]

Anyone have any experience with the Wix brand of filters for the R65?

Monte