Brakes - From: Dipping a toe to test the water!

[its_only_me]

Today started bright and sunny here in the UK, and it really was a day for riding rather than fettlin the bike, but I so want her on the road for easter that work must be done. With that in mind I wanted one last look at the brakes before the ministry test (MOT).

on removing the rear wheel I was faced with quite an oily mess with contaminated brake shoes and hub, on cleaning the full area with brake cleaner I was none the wiser as to where it had come from and there being no obvious leaks, I set to fitting the new shoes.  Here I hit my first problem, the new supplied springs were way shorter than the original ones fitted, so I had to re-use the old, although there really was no need not to as the condition was fine.
I then cleaned the brake drum and inner wheel area, before giving the brake drum a quick rub over with emmery cloth, another clean with brake cleaner, before refitting the wheel and adjusting the brake.
I then turned my attention to the front calipers again, when I did the front brake service I noticed that the caliper pins were rusty, so I ordered new ones to be fitted today, only they too were wrong as you can see...



Isn't it funny, I have had nothing but good service from motorworks until this weekend, the brake springs were/are the wrong ones, and so are the new caliper pins I ordered, nowhere near the right size?
I wonder if this is because it is an LS model and they are sending generic R45/65 parts? have any of you found this problem when servicing your R65LS brakes??

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Just guessing here...there were two different type brake calipers used on R65's between '78 and '84 - ATE in the early years, and Brembo later.  But reading an old post of yours, I see you knew that...

Anyway, I wonder if you have pins for the ATE.

I doubt if function is impaired by the rust.  But I like nice, shiny parts when rebuilding, too.

I don't remember a short pin on my ATE's.  Mine have two same-length pins holding the pads in place.  What are the short ones for?

[Bob_Roller]

I did a search on RealOEM.com, and found the part number for tension springs for the LS rear brake and came up with : 34211242610, the R65 part number is : 34211457091. The only part number for the front brake pins for an LS are : 34211238059 and that is a 3 part kit 2 pins  and something that looks like a flat spring. Hope it helps you out.

[Justin B.]

I just rebuilt the front Brembos on my '82 LS and the "mounting hardware kit" consisted of two long pins, a short pin with centered groove, and a flat anti-rattle spring.  The parts shown in your pic look similar, but longer, so I am wondering if they might be for the larger Brembo calipers such as those used on the R80, R100, etc.?

Your rear shoes can get oily by either a leaky rear seal (where the wheel splines up) or the O-rings that seal the brake actuating rod are shot.  Where this actuating shaft sticks through the final drive actually goes through where the gear lube is and the shaft has a couple of machined grooves with O-rings.  I think Sue has had to replace these...

Oh, I split this from the original thread as it is technical in nature.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Just curious, Justin, where does the short pin go?

I just found out I will be ordering new pads before I install my new rotor, so that will be another week or two.
I only have a few thousand miles on a new set of pads I installed a year ago, but the differences in the old rotor and the new one are so great, I wouldn't even consider using the "old" pads.

I found this photo of the other side of my stock rotor, from Ken's rally last Spring:

[Justin B.]

Rob,

It's works in conjunction with the anti-rattle pin, to eliminate, well, the pads rattling around!    To get a better idea of how they are installed I invite you review the Brembo rebuild I did at:

http://suraklyn.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1169500630

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

My ATE's don't have that short, center pin.  And the spring is a different design, also.

[Chris_in_BC]

Rob,
The different shaped spring on the ATE's seems to try and combine the Brembo's spring and short pin in one piece.

It's only me...
Do the new pins you have fit? I see the long one on the left is almost identical except shorter on the top end. Move it down a quarter inch and all the grooves line up as well as locking ring. But is it now actually too short or is the end of the pin just recessed a little further than you had before?
The short pin is longer but does it still fit in the caliper?

Justin is right about looking at your rear oil seal and the brake rod which on the 82 , should have three O-rings I think, plus a thin felt pad on the outside of the brake rod where the actuating arm attaches.

[its_only_me]

It's only me...
Do the new pins you have fit? I see the long one on the left is almost identical except shorter on the top end. Move it down a quarter inch and all the grooves line up as well as locking ring. But is it now actually too short or is the end of the pin just recessed a little further than you had before?
The short pin is longer but does it still fit in the caliper? No Too wide

Justin is right about looking at your rear oil seal and the brake rod which on the 82 , should have three O-rings I think, plus a thin felt pad on the outside of the brake rod where the actuating arm attaches.

I will look again at the rear hub area 500 miles in, I have bought three o-rings, but where is the oil seal located?

[its_only_me]

Ok then here we are again, I have taken some more pictures, so this should quell any confusion over pin length, this time I have lined up the stop ring....





and in answer to the question above the tension pin (little one) is too long to fit in the caliper groove. These pins are for another type of Brembo? not for the R65LS

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I would get your supplier on the phone.

[Chris_in_BC]

It's only me...

I will look again at the rear hub area 500 miles in, I have bought three o-rings, but where is the oil seal located?

Looking at the final drive with wheel off and brake shoes removed. (I know you had just put them on.   ). There is a cover with 8 or so bolts around it. The wheel drive splines comes out of this. Unbolt the nuts. At around 2pm and 8pm you will see two blank 6mm threaded holes. Use a couple of spare bolts in these holes, tighten evenly and it will force the cover off the final drive base. You might have a gasket under here, but both my R65 and R80 didn't , just gasket sealer. Once the cover is off, use something to knock out the oil seal and tap a new one in. Fiddly because it is a large oil seal, but doable. Try and use a large flat surface and tap on that.

Note when buying the oil seal, there is a different one for mono and dual shock bikes.
If your bike has a gasket, put another gasket on, if not I would suggest just gasket cement.

[trolle]

Be very careful when you put the cover back: It might be a good idea to place the cover in your freezer overnight and warm the hub up to appr. 160F when you put the cover back. Do not try to pull the cover in place by tightening the bolts but place a 4by4 piece of wood on top of the cover and tap it gently in place with a mallet. Then tighten the bolts to the prescribed torque which is 18N-m or 13 ft.-lb. Do not overtighten or they may break in the seat which is very annoying - no, do not ask!

greetings from north where the season has just begun  [smiley=grin.gif]

trolle

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Let us address the three small o-rings for a moment.

I have never replaced mine, but I am sure they need it.

Does one have to remove the inner cover in order to get the brake actuating shaft out?

I do know that before you remove the brake lever from the splined shaft on the outside of the final drive, you should mark their relative location so you can put them back in the same orientation.

http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/rear_brake/index.htm

[Ed Miller]

My brake shaft only had slots for 2 o-rings.  I guess there is an upgrade (maybe it's the LS version) that will take 4.  So I have two extra now.

You should probably mark the relationship between the shaft and the final drive housing, as well as the lever, just to be sure.  Though there's only two ways (I think) the shaft would even work.

You don't have to remove the inner cover, just the tire and brake shoes.  I can't remember how I forced the shaft out but I know I didn't break anything for once.  

Is yours leaking oil?  I find my rear brake works better without the oil, though I don't think it will last as long.