The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: Spline Lube Job  (Read 2795 times)

wxp

  • Guest
Spline Lube Job
« on: January 01, 2009, 08:18:49 PM »
Ok, I've read a bunch, snowbum, haynes manual, other sources. Now I am ready for some more input.  I have every thing down except the swing arm & the tranny out, I'lll be turning the 27mm socket tomorrow inorder for it to fit. What else do I need to know/do. Does the clutch calble need to come loose? can I just slide the tranny back as far as it will go, llube the spline & put it back in? there are only 15500 miles on the bike, I'll get as good a look as I can at the clutch but don't think there should be any reason to replace it, the gear oil that came out is dirty, I'll be replenishing/replacing that. the yoke w/the unversal joint, does that slide apart or do I need to unbolt anything in there?

Any and all comments will be appreciated.

Bill

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5143
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 04:33:15 AM »
Bill

When I did a spline lube for the first time I found it useful to pull the rear wheel back with a rope.  this helped to maintain the maximum possible gap while cleaning and lubricating the spline.  Also be careful not to damage the electrical sender under the gearbox. I supported the gearbox with a jack and disconnected the wires to provide more clearance.

Just take it slow and use your eyes. As with many things in life contemplation of a task can be harder than actually doing it.

Good luck.
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Ed Miller

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2425
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 03:43:14 PM »
Yeah, undo the clutch cable and unhook it from behind the tranny.  Also pull off that clutch lever arm, as it will give you a lot more room to move the tranny and it has little bearings in it that need cleaned and greased.

The only real reason to not remove the tranny for this job is so you don't have to mess with undoing the u-joint gaitor and bolts; you just pull the swing arm and tranny back away from the motor.  Actually undoing those is pretty easy.  Putting it back together can be a pain.  But pulling the tranny all the way off gives you a lot better view of the area and makes it easier to clean things up.

I shouldn't have to do that again for another year or more.   :)

Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

wxp

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 09:23:20 PM »
Ok, I got it apart & back together..all the input (2 comments whats up with that?? out of 71 views) I guess know one else has ever done this beforeso they could'nt comment??..Its very disappointing >:( that not very many people had any advice/input & what I did get came a bit too late as I did not realize I could leave the rear end & shaft attached to the transmission, after taking it apart, putting a new boot on & re- attaching everything, i could of saved myself a little trouble. I wanted a new boot on it anyway.

My biggest concern right now,IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEA OR COMMENT is how to torqe the unversal bolts. My guess is just get them as tight as possible since there is no room for a torqe wrench.



« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 09:27:46 PM by wxp »

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5143
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2009, 06:24:05 AM »
Bill


Snowbum covers drive flange bolts in a separate article.


http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/drvshftboltstoolstorque.htm
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

not-so-fast-ed

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2009, 08:44:51 AM »
Bill, the reason I didn't comment is I wasn't sure which year R65 you had.  I've got a '87 Monoshock and have only taken mine apart once.  Like mentioned, I ended up taking everything apart including the shock, , driveshaft, battery, and moving the wheel to get the transmission completely out of the bike. Then I replaced the clutch rod boot, which had ripped apart.

The tool you're looking for can be purchased at Northwoods Airheads for less than $20.

http://www.northwoodsairheads.com/Tools.html

Most of the people who usually comment have been busy with holiday commitments.  Be a bit more patient.  If you've been around a while you know that this forum has a vast pool of knowledge and experience.  It is really the friendliest and most helpful site on the web.

Good luck,

Ed

wxp

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 10:23:01 AM »
Thanks Ed for the input..I just figured after several days waiting for some other input & 71 views I would have had more than 2 folks comment..

Now for another observation I noticed while putting the rear end back on the bike..when tightening the swingarm pins it moves the entire swingarm/rearend from side to side. This seems to throw the alignment off. is the alignment set by sight?? also, there was a gap btwn the swing arm & frame on one side or the other, I really did'nt play to much w/this as it was late & I was tired.

any one have any knowledge about this??

Thanks

wxp

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 10:25:45 AM »
Thanks also to Barry, I have read Snowbums sight but did'nt read that particular article, I'll look for one on the alignment question also.

And by the way, it is a 1980 r65

Offline nhmaf

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5156
  • Free at last, Free at last!
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 01:06:36 PM »
wxp - you only allowed 48 hours - and on a holiday weekend at that - for folks to leave comments.  While many of us frequent this site quite a bit, we do have other things in our lives, too!
 ;)
This topic has also been discussed in other threads before, so one must be patient when asking for help, and also diligent about searching for older threads on related topic, though I can also see that our search function isn't working very well right now.

As to swingarm alignment, if things are working well before you first took the swingarm off, the thing is to measure the gap between the swingarm and the frame bosses at the pivots on BOTH sides, and restore the swingarm to this gap or as nearly close to it as possible when reinstalling.  While it is fairly important to get the swingarm more or less centered in the frame, it is more important that you don't have any rubbing of the drive train inside the swingarm tube on the right side.   Ideally one would have it so that the driveline is exactly centered in the tube, but this isn't always easy to do (or see, for that matter), so most of us rely on checking the gaps between the frame and swingarm at the pivots on both sides as mentioned before.

It help to take pictures (especially if you have a digital camera) as you go so that you know ho it all goes back together, and to help document your observations & measurements.  I'd recommend using calipers for a more precise measurement than this tape measure, but this at least gives you the idea of what to check.   Do the same thing on the other side.  If the bearings are all properly installed and preloaded and the frame isn't tweaked, this measurement should be pretty close to the same on each side, but it won't necessarily be exactly the same for the driveline to be exactly centered in the tube.  Again, once I find where it seems to work well on any of my bikes - or I see that it has been OK on a "new" bike, I tend to always restore it to the same spot.




If you do have the small 12-point, closed-end wrench that comes in the toolkit and no torque wrench to fit the bolts, then it is probably OK to use the "goodentite" method for torquing these bolts.  There is an often controversial debate as to whether these bolts can be re-used or not - I generally use new bolts every time, and keep a few old/used ones as "spares".  These bolts either come with a locking washer or some do not (stretch bolts).  The stretch bolts are recommended by BMW to not be re-used, and I tend to follow this part of their advice, though I know others have re-used them without causing global economic meltdown.... hey, wait a minute !

1) make sure the rear brake is hooked up and have someone really push hard on the brake pedal to stop the rear wheel from turning.
2) make sure that wrench is fully engaged and squarely on the bolt head to be tightened and give it a good hard tug.   Unless you're stronger than the governor of Kalifornia you won't be able to overtorque those bolts with that little wrench, and you will probably be able to get them tight enough for practical purposes unless you're a real wimp. :D

Do read, and re-read "snowbums" web pages - he is very verbose and often goes off on a tangent (and his web page organization is atrocious) but there are alot of good "gems" in there for maintaining airheads.  Bookmark his site and re-visit it from time to time, and of course, feel welcome to join us here to discuss things, too!

Mike
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 01:12:58 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Semper Gumby

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Dances with cow!
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 01:10:35 PM »
Quote
Ok, I got it apart & back together..all the input (2 comments whats up with that?? out of 71 views) I guess know one else has ever done this beforeso they could'nt comment??..Its very disappointing >:( that not very many people had any advice/input & what I did get came a bit too late as I did not realize I could leave the rear end & shaft attached to the transmission, after taking it apart, putting a new boot on & re- attaching everything, i could of saved myself a little trouble. I wanted a new boot on it anyway.

My biggest concern right now,IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEA OR COMMENT is how to torqe the unversal bolts. My guess is just get them as tight as possible since there is no room for a torqe wrench.

Sorry for not getting to you in time but you could have searched the forum here for this is a well discussed subject.  

As to how to torque the bolts:  I bought a longish 10mm 12 pt craftman wrench and thinned the enclosed end down to make it easier to get on the four streatch bolts.  The I put the bike in gear when I have the propellor in the position I want and put a set on it.  Can't say how much just tillit feels right. and then no more.  There is a tool from Ed Korn but I haven't been able to use it  and you have to use a formula to figure out the proper torque (because its an extension).

I hope you followed the Snowbums intructions to the letter because if you followed the pictures in the Clymer then you have already screwed the clutch.  ( gease only the tranny splines -male part with a drop on the tip for the clutch shaft).  If you greased the female part (inside the clutch friction plate) then when you insert the male part you will fertilize one side of the clutch friction plates with fresh grease.  This gives you only one half a clutch and a lot of trouble.  If your clutch is now slipping (in first on a hill or in fourth under a load 80-100% throttle) best now to remove the friction plate and have it resurfaced rather than over heat the spring plate and have to replace it (expensive).

The reason to remove the tranny and the clutch lever arm off the back of the tranny is its easier to do the throwout bearing service at this time.  The Snowbum talks about this too.  I always do both when I do the spline service.

Good luck.
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline Semper Gumby

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Dances with cow!
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 01:19:11 PM »
Quote
Thanks Ed for the input..I just figured after several days waiting for some other input & 71 views I would have had more than 2 folks comment..

Now for another observation I noticed while putting the rear end back on the bike..when tightening the swingarm pins it moves the entire swingarm/rearend from side to side. This seems to throw the alignment off. is the alignment set by sight?? also, there was a gap btwn the swing arm & frame on one side or the other, I really did'nt play to much w/this as it was late & I was tired.

any one have any knowledge about this??

Thanks

Yes.  The swing arm should be centered but this is not critical unless you are having handling problems (wobbles).  A loose swing arm begats high speed wobbles.

There is a range of torques for the final setting - use the highest setting for your swing arm. To center the swing arm use a 4mm allen wrench.  Insert in the gap between the swing arm and the frame on each side and move the end back and forth to gage the amount of play. As I tighen the pivot pins down (not all at once but incrementally) I check the position of the swingarm and the frame with the allen.  What I am trying for is the same amount of play on both sides.  This will be approximately centered when finished.  The last turn of the torque wrench (to the highest setting) should be on the side with the least amount of play so you are pushing the swing arm towards center (and setting the final torque).  Remember to pump grease through the bearing through the center of the pivot pin and set the lock nut with your big socket.

Hope this helps.

BTW - What month was your R65 made.  1980 was a transition year and it matters if your bike was built in 09/1980 or later or 08/1980 and earlier.  Mine was born in March of 1980 hence the 1980/03 in my tag line.

Check your serial number on this list:  http://bmbikes.co.uk/chassispages/enginechassis650.htm

BTW - there is information here that you not find in any manual - anywhere!  Don't get me started on pre-Sept 1980 R65 clutch and its non-standard bolts.  Find you not in any manual will you.  Care to guess what torque setting you should use?

Good luck
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 01:49:11 PM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline nhmaf

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5156
  • Free at last, Free at last!
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 05:18:47 PM »
I have a process rather similar to Gumby's for re-tightening the pivot pins and locknuts.  I've found that using a bit of whiteout (typewriter correction fluid) or some sort of fast-drying, easily removable&visible stuff is handy for marking the flats of the nut and on the pivot pin, so that I can get both sides to about the same point of "play" or looseness before I snug things up with the torque wrench on the lock nuts.   With the markings I can tell if the pivot pin has rotated on me while I've been snugging down the locking nut.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Chris_in_BC

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 01:06:00 AM »
Quote
wxp

 Â There is an often controversial debate as to whether these bolts can be re-used or not - I generally use new bolts every time, and keep a few old/used ones as "spares".  These bolts either come with a locking washer or some do not (stretch bolts).  The stretch bolts are recommended by BMW to not be re-used, and I tend to follow this part of their advice, though I know others have re-used them without causing global economic meltdown.... hey, wait a minute !
Mike
Far as I know the bolts that used the washers are no longer available. They were a longer bolt and could not be used without the washer. The washers used to break up which is why the shorter chamfered head bolts replaced them. I am one of the 'others' on re-use. But they aren't expensive to buy.

Chris_in_BC

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 01:19:39 AM »
Quote
Now for another observation I noticed while putting the rear end back on the bike..when tightening the swingarm pins it moves the entire swingarm/rearend from side to side. This seems to throw the alignment off. is the alignment set by sight?? also, there was a gap btwn the swing arm & frame on one side or the other, I really did'nt play to much w/this as it was late & I was tired.
Thanks
I agree with what the others have said. Personally, I centre the swingarm in the frame, taking out any slack in the bearings. I then tighten the locknut on one side. Finished with that side.  On the other side, I slacken off the bearing pin with the allen wrench and re-tighten to bearing load spec. Then tighten that lock nut.

To tighten the drive shaft bolts, I put it in gear, press down on rear brake, and with a cloth wrapped around the short 10/12mm ring spanner to protect my hand give a good hard tug to tighten.

wxp

  • Guest
Re: Spline Lube Job
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 09:04:56 AM »
Just to set things straight.

I have read snowbums articles, I have searched this site for " spline lube jobs" did not find anything worth any value.

I posted this 2 days before I really needed it as I had been waiting on parts & slowly taking it apart so as not to "mess" it all up & studying it all as I went. This is my first bike in over 20 yrs..the first time I overhauled a car engine at age 16  I had a hand full of bolts left overthat I could not account for. It ran fine until the thrust washers fell out cause I had them in backwards.

AND, after 71 people viewed the original post I still had no input & had to forge ahead..

But at least I got your attention & finally got some input to think about & be on the look out for which is what I needed.
'
Thanks Alot for the Help

So far so good as going back together..I do need to get some locTite for the bolts..& the main thing about the swing arm I was concerned w/was any alignment/handeling problem I might run into..I should be able to accomadate putting it back together ok w/out worrying too much about the inside of the tube..however tire rub will be a concern as that was extreemly close to begin w/.

Also just to let everyone know, the splines were completely void of any lubrication..its a good thing I decided to go ahead & do this, a good thing though is that there was no real evidence of any serious wear.


Bill