Chinese Copy of pre-WWII BMW sidecar.

[Tony Smith]

I have been looking with some fascination at the site below:-

http://www.chinasidecar.com/showroom.htm
 
The story, as I understand it goes like this. Prior to WWII the German Army worked with BMW to produce the beautiful R75 sidecar outfit. (and beautiful it truly is, sadly it cost more to make than a Jeep, was harder to drive than a jeep, couldn't carry as much as a jeep and could not cover terrain as rough as a jeep could - but that is another story).
 
In a clever effort to recover some money, BMW sold the design and tooling to the older and less capable R71 sidecar outfit to the Russians, who proceeded to make lots of them and whose riders envied the German soldiers with their R75s.
 
At the end of WWII Russia found itself in possession of the Factory making the R75 and promptly moved it elsewhere and started knocking them out for their own purposes. They still make them today under the Cossack, Dneiper, IMS and other names. The very latest ones are fuel injected and greatly modernized, sadly they cost nearly as much as a far, far more modern BMW and production quality remains "variable".
 
As a second aside in the 1970s there was a firm in Melbourne Australia importing them as Cossacks, they were advertised as being "$750 registered on the road for a 750cc motorcycle, with a free litre of Russian petrol thrown in. I knew someone who bought one, I would have laughed more at him, but he got very strong from pushing the thing everywhere after it broke down.
 
Anyway, to end the digression. The clever Russians on-sold the R71 tooling and design to the People's Republic of China who turned their State directed industry to manufacturing them, resulting in multiple warehouses full of brand new, unused R71 copies. Thing is, the PLA stopped using them in the 1960s and they have been sleeping in storage ever since,most of them never having been started since their end of assembly line testing..
 
Enter the enterprising fellows from the website above. They will sell me a R71, serviced, tuned and with the sidecar moved to the left side for Australian registration, AND freight it to me in Australia for around $AU3,300 Pacific Pesos (About $US2,900).
 
Though for the life of me I cannot fathom why, I am interested. Just what I need, a less reliable copy of pre-war BMW not famed for it's reliability in the first place. miserable fuel economy, 60mph absolute top speed and indifferent brakes.
 
Damm! I just looked at the spare parts prices and they are so cheap who cares if the odd thing breaks from time to time....
 
Someone talk me out of this please!

[steve hawkins]

As with all side car rigs:

Unable to filter (lane split) in traffic.  
Still gonna get wet when it rains.
Slower and less maneuverable than it's two wheeled counterpart.
No excuse for leaving the 'trouble and strife' at home.
Takes up the space of two bikes in the garage.
Going to have to take all your relatives, your friends and their relatives out for a spin in the chair......At their convenience and at no cost to themselves.

And you have just picked the most potentially unreliable workhorse money can buy........but you will get stronger. [smiley=chairshot.gif]

[Tony Smith]

Thank you Steve - that helped.

Now would you mind repeating the message every few days for the next little while please.

 
The sneaky Chinese have referred me to one of their buyers who lives only 100km away from me, he has already emailed me wanting to make a time between Christmas and New Year for me to have a look at his.

The last semblance of common sense I have left tells me to ask him to ride it here and see what he says......

[Luca]

Come on folks, let's help this guy!

It isn't just a BMW copy, it's a copy of a BMW copy... and a copy done by the Chinese, whose manufacturing is questionable nowadays, let alone way back when.

In a situation like this, it is often the finely engineered details that get lost in translation, or the copier doesn't even realize what the fine details are since they put little effort into developing the design.  The cost of a BMW included the cost of engineering a BMW.  Even if not known for their reliability, there is a reason that the BMW R71's were more reliable than their Russian counterparts.

Also, while replacement parts might be cheap, if they are of poor manufacturing quality, they will give you many headaches.  Consider not only the cost of repairs, but the cost to your sanity.

Finally, consider replacing the motorcycle in this situation for something else, and ask what you'd do.  For example, if you just had to have a new helmet, would you rather spend the same money on a fully functional, though basically equipped HJC helmet, or on a Chinese made repop of a Russian Schuberth copy?

[steve hawkins]

Okay, here goes  [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

As with all side car rigs:

Unable to filter (lane split) in traffic.  
Still gonna get wet when it rains.
Slower and less maneuverable than it's two wheeled counterpart.
No excuse for leaving the 'trouble and strife' at home.
Takes up the space of two bikes in the garage.
Going to have to take all your relatives, your friends and their relatives out for a spin in the chair......At their convenience and at no cost to themselves.

And you have just picked the most potentially unreliable workhorse money can buy........but you will get stronger.  [smiley=chairshot.gif]

Rev light

[marcmax]

I put things like this in their own category. If you are looking at one of these as a substitute for a BMW sidecar rig and are expecting the same kind of performance and reliability, at a cheaper price, you will be very, VERY disappointed.

If you don't mind tinkering with things and more maintenance and upkeep than a BMW, then go for it. They are as good as the time and effort that you put into them.

My BMW mentor, Tom High from Rennsport Motorrad, has a 1957 Chang Jaing sidecar rig. From 30 feet it looks great but the closer you get you can see that the castings are not as fine or finished, the frame welds are not as clean, etc. Still, once he got it dialed in, it starts every time, runs decent for a 50+ year old motorcycle and is a hoot to ride.

Would he load it up and head out cross country? Not on your life, and he is factory trained by BMW and could probably rebuild the entire thing on the side of the road. But around town, trips to the parts house or just burning some dead dinosaurs on a back road, it's cheap entertainment.

Just my $.02 worth

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

Sidecars are a lot of fun, if you are the sort of person that enjoys such a thing.

I DO.

I would have NO PROBLEM finding room in my garage for one, again, if I had the money.

With a Ural rig, I would plan on putting in a late model BMW engine and gearbox.  I am pretty sure they are an easy swap.
If possible, I would probably put in a BMW swingarm & final drive as well.  

Make sure you get a bike with a leading link front fork.  Ural makes one.  I don't know about the Chinese.

Myself, I am waiting until I find another /2 in real bad shape...for real cheap.  IOW - I am done sidecaring in this lifetime.

My other option would be a Moto Guzzi powered rig, only because of it's similarity to the BMW, with the great advantage of much easier right-hand valve adjustments.

[montmil]

... It isn't just a BMW copy, it's a copy of a BMW copy... and a copy done by the Chinese?

Sorta like making a Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox...  Each copy progressively worse than the last.

Your money. Your decision. Luck to ya, mate. You're going to need a lot of it.

[Tony Smith]

Well, it's not as if I "need' a copy of a copy of a r71 sidecar outfit, in fact within broad parameters even a certain degree of unreliability is tolerable in what I see purely as a novelty "toy", nothing more.

Let's face it, it is only costs play money. That said i am endeavoring to contact owners of such beasts here in Australia, I have also written to my State's vehicle registration authority to make sure that I can register it for use on the road.

My mistake was to let the r69 outfit I once owned (not an r69S) slip through my fingers (that still hurts trust me i didn't know what I had), compounded by not buying something "ordinary" like a R50/60 or R75 when they could be had cheaply. Actually, if I'm honest there was even a time when a good rideable R90s coulld have been had for less than the cost of a good weekend away. I missed that boat which is one of the reasons I decided to stand up the wreck of a r65 I've owned for nearly 20 years. I would really like an early model R80 G/S but given the silly money they trade hands for here, I doubt that will happen.

[davidpdx]

 A few things I learned only after I bought a sidecar are that if they are not attached to a bike they are real hard to move around and if they are they take up a lot of room. I think I will try to get riding with one out of my system this summer and pass it on to someone else just to reclaim the garage space.  

[NC Steve]

If you haven't been there before, poke around in here too,

http://russianiron.com/

An invaluable owner's resource, it's a great site. I've met a few of the folks thru motorcycle camping and Airhead events, and they're a very fun group who also appreciate what they do and not take themselves too seriously.   They're into all things Uralian and related, including Dnepr and Chaing Jiang. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[NC Steve]

Not an Airhead, but...

[Tony Smith]

I've owned and ridden sidecars, but frankly that one begs the question - why?

Actually I suppose it also begs the question,  why not?

Each to his/her own I guess.

And just to bring this back to the original topic. I have kind of lost interest in Chinese sidecars, the reason being that my State's registration authority requires proof of the date of manufacture in order to waive the requirement to meet braking, emission and noise standards that exist now. The person to whom I spoke in our Transport and Main Roads office said that a number of applications to register Chiang Jings came across his desk and whilst he was sympathetic the blunt position is that they do not go within a bull's roar of meeting modern safety and mechanical standards and they harbour severe doubts as to the authenticity of the 1960's manufacturing date claimed as there has been no confirmation ever produced by a manufacturer or any person holding the "design authority". What he did say was that if I registered one in my own name in another country and then waited 6 months that I could bring one in under the personal import scheme and it would be registered even though they do not meet Australian Design rules.

I decided it was all too hard and instead am trying to buy a Yamaha XS750 or XS850 to re live some youth on.

[marcmax]

I wouldn't mind that one if it had some sort of quick release feature. Pull into a campground, setup camp, pop a couple of levers to disconnect and go explore the surrounding area on two wheels.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

I wouldn't mind that one if it had some sort of quick release feature. Pull into a campground, setup camp, pop a couple of levers to disconnect and go explore the surrounding area on two wheels.

Unfortunately the front end geometry is different for pulling a sidecar and not.
BMW came as close as you will find for altering that geometry with their version of the Earle fork.  It would take about 1/2 hour to relocate both ends of the front shocks to their alternate mounts.

A bike set up for sidecarring would have very quick steering as a solo bike, which is why steering dampers are pretty much standard issue on rigs.