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Author Topic: Oil - brand and viscoity  (Read 7821 times)

Milo_357

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Oil - brand and viscoity
« on: August 16, 2011, 12:47:08 PM »
OK folks... Oil - what brand and viscoity do you use?

Thanks!

Milo

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 04:29:15 PM »
Argh! ADOT -

Sorry Milo, but if you haven't done internet forums alot involving motor vehicles of various sorts, this is the sort of thing that is akin to debating Roman Catholic vs Protestant, Christian vs everything else,  Miracle Whip vs. Mayonaise, Ketchup .vs. Mustard, Great Taste .vs. Less Filling.... you get the picture.   Our "Rants..." section is reserved for oil thread discussions because of this, and there are several in there already.

Oh, and among the various net-based acronyms, "ADOT" means "Another Damn Oil Thread"!, like DAMHIK means "Don't Ask Me How I Know", etc.. pretty much on any forum that is English-language based..
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 04:30:54 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline montmil

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 06:08:13 PM »
Too funny, Mike, your ADOT. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I'd love to see how this would play, ADOT again and again, on the Airheads List. [smiley=ROTFLMAO.gif]

"Calling Snowbum, calling Tom Cutter, calling Joe Cuda... clean up on aisle 20W50."

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Justin B.

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Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 09:51:09 PM »
[movedhere] BMW Technical Q&A, Primarily R65 [move by] Justin B..
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 11:29:53 PM »
OK, Dell - I'll try to keep cool and give you my $.02 on what I use and why - which may be perfectly OK for me and no one else on the planet.   Everyone's got to follow their own philosophy with whatever info they've got.   Given my latitude/climate, I run 10w40 in all my bikes.   It very rarely gets over 100F here, and there are usually a couple months at the start and end of the riding season where the temperatures will be at or around 32F.   The 10W40 viscosity works for me and is easier for the starter to turn the engine on those cooler days when I still want to ride.

I use regular dino-juice in all my bikes, partly because some of them had dino juice in them for years ahead of my acquiring them, and SOMETIMES it has been observed that engines may experience leaks when switching to synthetic if the seals haven't been changed.   (Similar happenings seemed to occur back in the 70s when folks switched from nondetergent oils to high detergent oils like Quaker State, but let's not fan the flames any more than necessary).. The other reason I stick with dino juice is because I change the oil every 3000 miles or at least once per year, depending on the bike/usage.   The major advantage of the synthetic oils is extended mileage/change intervals, and if one isn't taking advantage of that aspect, then one isn't getting one's $$$ value out of the more expensive synth oils, IMHO.   I'd rather stick with my more frequent oil changes and use the opportunity to survey the state of the bike/filters, etc. at those times, too.

Lastly,  much has been said about ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-DithioPhosphate) in motor oils.   The US EPA, the same folks who brought us MTBE which polluted our groundwater and now mandate 15% ethanol additive content to our fuel to keep their farm subsidy friends happy are also responsible for requiring the stepped removal of ALL phosphates from motor oil and motor fuels sold in the US.   The issue with the phosphate situation is that more modern auto/truck engines, say, since 1990 or so don't use flat lifters/tappets and use rollers, or shim u/bucket designs running off overhead cams.  These engines don't require these phosphates to operate well and they don't need the phosphates to guard against wear.  The old fashioned, flat lifter engines like our airheads or the old flathead Ford cars NEED the phospohates to help lubricate and protect these flat, solid, high pressure interfaces on the lifters/pushrods.   Years ago, before the major reductions in phosphates were enacted on motor oils, the automotive motor oil industry specification was "SG", and it specified a limit of something like 1500 ppm or 1800 ppm of this chemical phosphate content.  This seemed to work OK and was adequate to protect our old engine parts.  Over the years, regulations have forced motor oil manufacturers to reduce this level, and the latest motor oil industry specification is at revision "SM", I think.   This specifies a limit of only a couple hundred ppm of phosphates content, which is too low to be of any good for our engines, in the opinion of many.  

Some manufacturers still offer some product lines with higher ZDDP content for the smaller 'niche' market.   Some do not.    It is becoming harder and harder to find motor oils which still have the "SG" rating or phosophate content commensurate with that revision of the standard.   However, there are a number of motor oil ZDDP additives which are being sold which can simply be added to your motor oil of choice which will give you an adequate level of protection, even if you are using modern level oils with virtually no ZDDP left in them from the factory.

I've gotta put my Nomex suit on now - hope that this helped you in some way!

Flame on!
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2011, 10:27:56 AM »
WOOHOO AN ADOT.

The best brand of oil for these bikes is Spectro Golden 20W50 -  a Synthetic Blend.

Unfortunately it is really expensive and hard to come by.

At Autozone you can get the 20W50 Valvoline VR-1 racing oil.  It has lots of the same additives at half the price and a higher percentages of ZDDP than the 20W50 Valvoline Motorcycle oil.  I use this April - October.  When it starts getting cold I will switch to the Valvoline 10W40 Motorcycle oil as it has the most additives in the 10W40 class of oils that I can find.  This makes the bike easier to start in the winter months.  This summer Autozone put the valvoline oils on sale for something like $3.00 a quart.  I bought a case.

In the tranny/drive shaft/final drive I use the Valvoline 85W140 April through October Synthetic blend (dark blue Bottle - there is a white bottle which is dino I think).  My choice is subjective: the 85W140 feels like it shifts smoother in the tranny for me.  During the same winter months I use the 80W90.  I have done it this way for years now.  The tranny is at about 107,000 miles and counting.  The U-joint in the drive shaft has been rebuilt once.

I need to be able to walk into any Autozone and get what works no matter what part of the country I happen to be in.

On the tranny oil thing it is not so much what I use but that I change it twice a year.  I think that is the really important thing.  Changing the gear oils twice a year helps keep moisture away from expensive bits in the drive train.

Stay away from pure synthetics unless you know that every seal in your motor is brand new /perfectly installed/made after 1980 (the cut off year for synthetic oil compatibility.)

BTW - I use only the BMW filters.  I like the quality.  I would use the WIX filter if I could but the filter is 1/8" longer than the stock BMW bendy filter and I don't like the idea of crushing the filter to install it.

Read the article about how many shims you need to keep the proper pressure on the $3000 o-ring (Snowbum).  Then throw away the paper gasket for ever more!

Good luck.  We are all counting on you.   8-)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:36:22 AM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

RSMike

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2011, 10:50:45 AM »
Castrol Actevo 4T 20W50 Mineral (€6.95 a litre and the only one on Snowbum's list that I can source locally)

Snowbum's recommendations for Airheads (updated April 2011):

(1)  Mobil 1 V-Twin in 20W50 grade.
(2)  Golden Spectro 4 in 20W50
(3)  BMW 20W50 NON-synthetic motorcycle oil.  
(4) Valvoline 4-stroke motorcycle oil, in 20W50 (or 10W40 for quite cold areas).
(5) Shell Rotella-T in grade 15W40;
(6) Castrol's 4T oil, (and Grand Prix oil, which is the SAME OIL) in either grade 10W40 or 20W50, as appropriate to your climate.  

Lots of detail at:
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/oilessay.htm
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:53:57 AM by RSMike »

Milo_357

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2011, 11:15:58 AM »
Wow....  and all I wanted was a heads up on oil for an oil change...  :D

Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 07:49:11 AM »
Well, you did ask, and these are some of the kindest, most civil comments I've ever seen on an oil thread.  Pick you oil, but remember to change early, and change often.  (And even that comment can evoke controversy!)
Bengt Phorqs, Jake R90/6, R80/7, R1200RTw, Moto Guzzi California EV , Triumph TR250W, Yamaha TY250A Trials, Suzuki DR650

RSMike

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 08:48:14 AM »
Quote
Well, you did ask, and these are some of the kindest, most civil comments I've ever seen on an oil thread.  Pick you oil, but remember to change early, and change often.  (And even that comment can evoke controversy!)

From Snowbum:

"I will BET that you NEVER have heard of this!.... Too frequent oil changes can INCREASE wear!!   I am not going to spell out why, and leave that to your imagination!...but, it is true.  Your gut tells you I am totally wrong, right?   ...as noted above, try this (there are other more in-depth articles on this subject):   http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/"
 :)

Offline Justin B.

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 10:34:22 AM »
Quote
Well, you did ask, and these are some of the kindest, most civil comments I've ever seen on an oil thread.

That's why I decided to consign all DOTs to the rants section - no flames allowed at the OP but any wacko suggestions are fair game! [smiley=evil.gif]

Oh, I use Mobil 1 15w50 with some ZDDP additive from Eastwood...

This thread reminds me I need to change oil in the RTP.  Suraklyn and I have decided to try the Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle Oil in 20w50.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 07:17:28 PM by admin »
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 03:35:32 PM »
Milo, check in with Bob.  http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/  That should keep you busy for a while.  The good news is, you get to decide what's best for you and don't let any of those crackpots out there try to tell you otherwise! [smiley=beehive.gif]
Bengt Phorqs, Jake R90/6, R80/7, R1200RTw, Moto Guzzi California EV , Triumph TR250W, Yamaha TY250A Trials, Suzuki DR650

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 08:21:23 PM »
I used Spectro 20w50 up until a few years ago, when the price went past $12US a quart locally .

I now use BMW branded 20w50 oil, it's made by Spectro and was $9US per quart last November .

I would use 'regular' dino oil, if the temps here weren't so high in the 'hot season'  here in a suburb of hell .
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 08:22:14 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Oil - brand and viscosity
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2011, 09:14:27 PM »
Quote

Oh, I use Mobil 1 15w50 with some SDDP additive from Eastwood...

<snip>

Synthetics!  Heresy!  Off with his head!   ;)
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline Barry

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Re: Oil - brand and viscoity
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 12:11:57 PM »
Quote
Milo, check in with Bob.http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/That should keep you busy for a while.  

Of all the oil web sites this one impressed me the most. The guy has a philosophy of thin oil is best because it increases the flow rate. And you have to say this about him - making your own decisions on what oil to put in a brand new Ferrari is the ultimate in "practice what you preach"

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45