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Author Topic: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves  (Read 2531 times)

Offline nhmaf

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Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« on: May 28, 2008, 12:26:50 PM »
Late last year I had adjusted the valves on my  82 R65LS (.005" intake, .010" exhaust) and the bike had
been running well, though at the time I did notice the tap-tap-tapping noise of the little sewing machine
was a bit louder than I recalled being 'normal'.   I think that I like running the intake and especially the
exhaust valve clearances on this stock-valve-seat bike a little bit on the generous side (factory specs are .004"/.008") to try to
improve valve heat transfer and hopefully avoid having to do the valve&seat replacement thing for a few more years yet.

Anyhow, this spring the bike continued to run fine, but I decided that the tap-tap-tapping was louder than it
ought to be and it was getting on my nerves, especially the right hand cylinder, so I decided to check the
adjustments and see what could be the cause of the noise.

Valve clearances were spot on still, but I noticed that the right hand cylinder's rocker had about .003" to .004" of
end play (vertical movement between the mounting blocks, while the intake rocker had essentially "0", or
at least less than .001", the limit of what I could measure.  I checked the left hand cylinder, and in that case, it was
the intake rocker that had the .003" of end play and the exhaust rocker had none.   I found it interesting that the
right cylinder seemed so much louder than the left, when the clearances were the same from side to side, and one rocker
on each side was "loose" as far as vertical/end play was concerned.  Perhaps the fact that on the right side it was the exhaust
rocker and not the intake that caused the tapping to seem louder when combined with the wider valve clearance.  

I checked and retorqued the head bolt nuts to 25 ft-lbs, and they were all very consistent and on the money.   I had read several threads about using
a C-clamp, or channel-lock pliers to "adjust" out this rocker end play, and then came across a slightly different method, which I tried out yesterday..

Working on the (2) rockers with end play, I loosened the nut on the lower rocker arm block about 1/2 - 2/3 turn, just to get some of the tension off it.  I placed a socket that would go around the end of the rocker arm shaft without touching it up against the underside of the block
and gave it a few "taps" upward with the small end of my war-mace (also known as the BMW exhaust nut spanner tool).  I re-tightened
the nut on the block to spec and did similar process on the upper rocker mounting block nut, but tapping down from the top, of course.
I retorqued the nuts, and rechecked the torque on the other head bolt nuts as well - all seemed OK.   I rechecked the rocker arm/valve clearances
and noticed that the left intake and right exhaust (which were the (2) that I performed this procedure on) had tightened up by about .003" or perhaps
slightly more.   I readjusted the valve clearances on both sides and turned the engine round a few more times for good measure and rechecked.
Valve clearances still good, and no significant vertical movement/end play on the rocker arms !   Yes !

I put the covers and plugs back on, etc. and started her up.    

Ah, that is more like what an airhead is supposed to sound like:   valves going tick-tick-tick-tick instead of TAP-TAP-TAP-TAP !

So, I guess that I wanted to say that if you are getting fairly loud-sounding valve noises (for an airhead, anyway), to check for rocker arm
end play as a possible cause.   The fact that adjusting it out seemed to reduce the valve clearance makes me wonder if there might be wear
occurring in the bushing that I may have to contend with later (out of round ?), but for the moment, I have my fingers crossed.

Has anyone else had similar experience ?   While I have adjusted the valves on this and other airheads before, this is the first time that I gave
much attention to the rocker end-play..

Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 12:52:39 PM »
I use the shims that are supposedly for the later year bikes, I had to install shims when I had to replace one rocker arm due to the needle bearing failure.

I had a lot more than .003 in. clearance, I think they averaged .006-.008 in.

The replacement rocker arm had around .030 in. clearance.
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 05:36:33 PM »
How many miles on the New hampshire R65? "Inquiring minds want to know."
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 07:50:03 PM »
16,480 original miles, original engine, replacement transmission...
It actually sat in storage down near NYC for several years, too.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2008, 03:21:54 PM »
Quote
<snip>
Has anyone else had similar experience ?   While I have adjusted the valves on this and other airheads before, this is the first time that I gave
much attention to the rocker end-play..

Yes.  I have the largest pair of plyers in the world the jaws of which fit above and below the nuts around the rocker arm.  Works great if you have three hands.  I will try your method next time.

Thanks.
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline MrRiden

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2008, 05:55:28 PM »
Nice writeup! This should get posted in the FAQ / Procedures section!
rich
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

scuba

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2008, 08:29:24 PM »
Are you talking about axial gap on rocker arm and rocker arm support (block)?

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2008, 09:02:11 PM »
scuba -

Yes, it is the "play" that you may feel when trying to slide the rocker vertically on the rocker shaft mounted between the (2) blocks.
Technically, there is supposed to be close to "0" vertical play in these.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Justin B.

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 07:06:20 PM »
I personally prefer the large "C-clamp" method.  This thread got me thinking so I did this on my '81 R100 last Thursday and although I took up a lot of slack it wasn't noticeably quieter!  :( YMMV...
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

Offline jusgus

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 06:03:40 PM »
I have a 1980 R65 and the pillow blocks bolt down onto round steel insert in the head.  Can the end play be taken up as described on my bike?

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 02:28:58 PM »
Yes, I believe (though could be wrong) that the 79-80 head gear is the same as the 81-85, at least as far as the rocker arm attachment methods go.
Rob or some of the other folks with the same model vintage as you will probably chime in, but I am at least 80% certain that your rocker arm
support blocks are basically the same as mine (1982 model), though the valves/seats/guides are a bit different.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 02:29:14 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline montmil

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 05:06:58 PM »
Quote
I personally prefer the large "C-clamp" method.

For the great unwashed amongst us, please explain the "C-clamp method".
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline MrRiden

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 07:27:43 PM »
the "C-clamp" method Justin refers to simply employs a large C clamp or bar clamp to squeeze the loosened valve blocks together. I went looking for a photo as I know there is one out there but the best I could locate right now is a tip from the Airheads club
http://www.airheads.org/content/view/186/98/
rich
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Offline Justin B.

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 09:20:50 AM »
What Rich said.  Also, use a socket on each side to clear the rocker shaft so you are actually squeezing on the blocks.
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Rocker end-play:Somewhat quieter valves
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 09:43:01 AM »
Thanks, Feenix and Justin, for the data on the pillow block adjustments.  I'm attempting to maintain a notebook with just this type of "unofficial" shop techniques for reference and future help.  The Airheads info is also included with your comments.  Gracias!

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet