The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: fork seals?  (Read 4487 times)

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2008, 10:55:07 AM »
Quote
That's very helpful,will let you know when i'm ready to do it,thanks,J. :)
Iv'e ordered a pair of new fork seals today,one of the fork legs is still leaking,do you think i might as well change both?the other one is fine,and im thinking"if it aint broke don't fix it"here!!what do you guys think?also,can i change the seal(s)by just removing the bottom half of the fork leg only?help please,thanks,J. :-/

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9122
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2008, 11:38:42 AM »
If only one is leaking, let the other go until it starts seeping, guess it all depends on your enthusiasm level.

You can just remove the lower part, but it's only two more pinch bolts, and it can be removed from the bike.

Get a few pieces of wood, and use them in a vise to hold the fork while you're working on it.
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2008, 12:37:02 PM »
Quote
If only one is leaking, let the other go until it starts seeping, guess it all depends on your enthusiasm level.

You can just remove the lower part, but it's only two more pinch bolts, and it can be removed from the bike.

Get a few pieces of wood, and use them in a vise to hold the fork while you're working on it.
I was just trying to save myself work in not removing the instrument cowl on the R65LS,i think you have to remove the top half or maybe all of it?to get to the pinch bolts,or am i wrong Bob,thanks for the reply and help,J.

Offline Bob_Roller

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 9122
  • -7 hours GMT
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2008, 01:23:25 PM »
I don't have an LS, so I didn't realize the extra work involved, to get to the pinch bolts.

The less you have to remove those fairings, the better off you are, I'm quite sure the plastic has gotten brittle with age !
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 8371
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2008, 04:45:28 PM »
[/quote]...also,can i change the seal(s)by just removing the bottom half of the fork leg only?...[/quote]

You can usually get lucky and take the lower fork sliders off by simply unscrewing the big allen screw in the recess of the lower leg. However...

...Luck will often divorce you during reinstallation as the damper rod will rotate as you attempt to get the correct torque on the allen screw. :(   Then, it's time to remove the rubber caps, another allen screw, circlips and the aluminum plug at the top of each leg. A  l-o-n-g  1/4 drive socket extension (in the neighborhood of 14-inches) and a 13mm socket will be needed to hold the damper rod while you torque the lower allen screw.

No hay lucha libre, amigo...  There ain't no free lunch.  The instrument cowl pieces and the handlebars will have to be moved. Been there and earned the t-shirt.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2008, 05:14:07 PM »
Ah!ok,well,i will take it off then,rather then find it a pain in th A** when trying to get it back together again,thanks for the info,i guess i might as well do the other one too,it's not leaking(yet)but sods law says that it will within 2 days of me doing the leaky one!!!cheers,J. :-/

Offline nhmaf

  • Global Moderator
  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 5156
  • Free at last, Free at last!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2008, 10:09:25 PM »
you may as well change both seals at once as you say...   In our state, to pass state safety inspection (which is always in June) one cannot have
leaky fork seals.

You don't have to take the fairing bits ENTIRELY off, but some disassembly is definitely required to get at the fork tube bits you need to access:
1) remove the inner black plastic covers (1 screw in each one)   you may have to loosen/rotate/move some cables and the upper brake hose
 around to get the room to slide each piece back to the rear to get the part of the cover that goes around the top of the fork tubes to come off.
Be careful !   These things get REALLLY fragile with age and are NO LONGER AVAILABLE.    I think that these are one of the most often missing pieces
on LS models these days.
2) you will see (2) bolts inside the fairing area exposed from removing the (2) covers in #1 on each side of the fairing (top and bottom).   I generally just loosen the bottom bolt and remove the top bolt on each side.   This allows the fairing to mostly stay on, but allows you to rotate it forward/wiggle it around as needed so that you can CAREFULLY remove the black plastic cowl piece, that goes over the instruments and down the middle/around the headlight.
the black plastic tabs on that cowl piece that generally break off are on the front edges (either side of the headlight).   IF they break, the cowling can still
be made to stay on.
3) remove the black plastic cowling by unscrewing the retainer ring from around the ignition key switch.   Then carefully, gradually work the cowling up and
to the rear as you lift it over the speedo/tach gauges and mind unhooking the aforementioned plastic tabs at the front of the cowling.
4)    you can now put a heavy old blanket on top of your gas tank, remove the clamp bolts that hold the handlebar on to the upper triple clamp and,
leaving cables attached, set the handlebar and its bits on the old blanket - OR - stuff it someplace forward of the fairing where it won't hit/scratch
anything.  Best if you don't leave the handlebar assembly hanging by its cables for extended periods of time, or hanging upside down (master cylinder
may start to leak and make a mess of anything the brake fluid gets on).

You can now access the top of the fork tubes and pinch bolts to do the job with good accessibility !
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 10:11:00 PM by nhmaf »
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2008, 02:49:58 AM »
That's great info,thanks,i have removed the black centre piece before when i replaced the bulb in the speedo,so i should be ok with that i hope,but the other info you told me will be very useful,thanks,i should get the seals in a couple of days depending on our good old british postal system!!and tackle the job over the weekend probably,one thing you may advise me on is,will i need anyone else for any help?thanks,J.

Offline montmil

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 8371
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2008, 05:58:57 AM »
Quote
... one thing you may advise me on is,will i need anyone else for any help?thanks,J.

Removing the circlips is a 2-person job. Not that it's difficult but unless you can grow another arm by the weekend... well.

One person pushes down on the aluminum plug using, hopefully, a long arm allen wrench. You will then use a small flat blade screwdriver to push straight down on an edge of the circlip. As the clip is  held by a machined lip, of sorts, and not in a machined groove, you can get the clip to turn vertically and pull it out with a pair of needlenose pliers. My wife is a champ at helping with this chore.
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 04:00:29 AM »
Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)

Offline montmil

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 8371
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 07:12:45 AM »
Quote
Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)

A vise with padded jaws -rubber inserts, soft wood, etc- will be very helpful in securing the fork legs so you can disassemble them without difficulty. Do not crush the legs with heavy pressure... just hold them in a vertical position so they will not rotate.

Remove the drain plug and catch whatever fluid is left in a coffee can or something. There will not be much. I use small 3x5-inch zip bags to keep track of removed parts. Use a Sharpie to write notes on the bag.

Remove the upper rubber plug. Get a helper to push down on the plug using a long-arm Allen wrench, then extract the circlip. Re-read above posts. Remove the aluminum plug and you'll be able to extract the fork spring.

Lift the rubber fork cap off the slider and, for now, push it up the fork leg.

Remove the 6mm Allen screw in the bottom recess of the slider. You may get lucky and not need the socket/extension... yet. The slider can then be pulled off. Note the depth and position of the seal, then gently remove the old seal. protect the alum slider by using a rag to avoid damaging the unit as you pop out the old seal. Use a screwdriver or whatever on the seal. It's toast anyway.

Clean up everything. Flush out the slider with a solvent. Be green. Don't dump the waste chemistry on the weeds. I maintain an oil drain "tank" and periodically drain the junk at the school district's bus barn recycling tank.

Your old seals may have the metric size cast on them. If you don't have the parts on hand, try a local bearing store. Faster than mail order. Also, the rubber slider caps have "felts" inside them. Be sure to replace them as they provide a first line defense against grit. Order from a Beemer supply.

Install seals straight in! A scrap of lumber and a mallet gets it done. Tap them in square to the machine recess. Don't mess this up or the seals will be damaged and you'll get to do it over. Ouch.

Before replacing the fork leg, use a bit of fork oil to lubricate the thin edge on the new seals. Watch the seal's i.d. "lip" to be sure it does not get folded under as you reinstalled the fork leg.

Re-read the above posts regarding the 13mm socket and extension. You may need a helper to hold the damper rod as you torque the lower Allen screw and its new aluminum crush washer. Fit the spring and reinstall the upper cap and circlip. Remember the drain plug. Be gentle on the torque with this little bolt. A new crush washer here is a good idea, too. Leaks are not good.

Fill the forks with fluid through the Allen screw hole in the upper fork cap. I use the spec'd 7.5 Wt BMW fork oil. Some folks prefer 10 Wt. About 230 cc in each leg after a rebuild.

Put the fork legs back on the scooter.

OK, other R65ers. What did I miss on this quickie lesson? Speak up and let's get Beemer back on the road.


Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline beemer

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • The Red Tomato!!!
Re: fork seals?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 09:15:28 AM »
Quote
Quote
Ok,i have to replace this fork seal now as it's leaking bad!i know how to get the fork off the bike,i need a step by step replacement info from then on,SO,the fork is off the bike,next please,i want to get it right!!thanks. :)

A vise with padded jaws -rubber inserts, soft wood, etc- will be very helpful in securing the fork legs so you can disassemble them without difficulty. Do not crush the legs with heavy pressure... just hold them in a vertical position so they will not rotate.

Remove the drain plug and catch whatever fluid is left in a coffee can or something. There will not be much. I use small 3x5-inch zip bags to keep track of removed parts. Use a Sharpie to write notes on the bag.

Remove the upper rubber plug. Get a helper to push down on the plug using a long-arm Allen wrench, then extract the circlip. Re-read above posts. Remove the aluminum plug and you'll be able to extract the fork spring.

Lift the rubber fork cap off the slider and, for now, push it up the fork leg.

Remove the 6mm Allen screw in the bottom recess of the slider. You may get lucky and not need the socket/extension... yet. The slider can then be pulled off. Note the depth and position of the seal, then gently remove the old seal. protect the alum slider by using a rag to avoid damaging the unit as you pop out the old seal. Use a screwdriver or whatever on the seal. It's toast anyway.

Clean up everything. Flush out the slider with a solvent. Be green. Don't dump the waste chemistry on the weeds. I maintain an oil drain "tank" and periodically drain the junk at the school district's bus barn recycling tank.

Your old seals may have the metric size cast on them. If you don't have the parts on hand, try a local bearing store. Faster than mail order. Also, the rubber slider caps have "felts" inside them. Be sure to replace them as they provide a first line defense against grit. Order from a Beemer supply.

Install seals straight in! A scrap of lumber and a mallet gets it done. Tap them in square to the machine recess. Don't mess this up or the seals will be damaged and you'll get to do it over. Ouch.

Before replacing the fork leg, use a bit of fork oil to lubricate the thin edge on the new seals. Watch the seal's i.d. "lip" to be sure it does not get folded under as you reinstalled the fork leg.

Re-read the above posts regarding the 13mm socket and extension. You may need a helper to hold the damper rod as you torque the lower Allen screw and its new aluminum crush washer. Fit the spring and reinstall the upper cap and circlip. Remember the drain plug. Be gentle on the torque with this little bolt. A new crush washer here is a good idea, too. Leaks are not good.

Fill the forks with fluid through the Allen screw hole in the upper fork cap. I use the spec'd 7.5 Wt BMW fork oil. Some folks prefer 10 Wt. About 230 cc in each leg after a rebuild.

Put the fork legs back on the scooter.

OK, other R65ers. What did I miss on this quickie lesson? Speak up and let's get Beemer back on the road.


Iv'e just come indoors from my workshop,the job is a "good un"as they say!!followed your instructions to the tee and it all worked out fine,thanks so much for taking the time to explain it all,you should get a  "Gold Star for Advice"award :)it all went smoothly,i just replaced the one that was leaking badly,the other one is fine,so i decided to leave it alone,i took it for a 10m run and no leaks on my return,thanks again,your a asset to the forum,J.