Standard - Is it the answer? Why should it be the

[steve hawkins]

On an adjoining thread about sourcing a new bike, my brother Tony questions the need for an unmolested 'standard' machine.

Rather than let the other thread degrade, I thought I would put the view out on a new thread for general comment.

This can be about any machine.  But lets keep it to the R65, or at least airheads in general.

 Whilst I actually agree with much of Tony's sentiments, I also must say that you should always buy the best you can afford, unless the first thing you intend to do is to use it as the base for a 'Special'.  Then you are only interested in mechanical integrity.

All manufacturers have a hard time making a bike that we are all entirely happy with.  They design something that they think will please most of the people, most of the time.  Then the bean counters come along and attempt to ruin it by specifying cheap cycle parts to save money, and then the production engineers have a go as well to make it easier to produce.  The end product is the watered down 'standard' machine.

I also care little for the 'standard' machine.  I feel it is nothing to be proud about.  And a standard machine with low mileage is a tragedy.  However, if it is your only bike, if it has to fulfill a multitude of roles, or that the owner does not know one end of a spanner from the other, then 'standard' might be the answer, or at least something close to it.  

But some people are more rapped up with a motorcycles worth, money wise, than the joy it can bring doing what it was made for.  The pride of ownership - even if it never leaves the garage - except perhaps on a trailer to show it off.

A bike always starts of as standard.  But depending on the type of riding that is being carried out by the owner, the bike often starts to be modified.  Honed, focused, so that it becomes better for what the owner wants it to do, the way he or she wants it done.  That is when things start getting interesting.  We are all different.  After 30 years, no bike should be the same.

There are many 'sensible' mods that can be carried out to our bikes.  These are the things that add value in my book.  Good aftermarket exhaust, quality shocks, surefoot/brown/etc side stand.  Some stainless steel.  Braided hoses, aftermarket brake disks.  

Other stuff is down to personal preference - a fairing or a screen? Luggage?  Funny seat?  Non standard paint job? These might not be to everyone's taste, and therefore, might not add value.  In fact they might actually reduce the value!

Neglect or mechanical insensitivity is another matted entirely

I actually sound worse than my brother!

Cheers

Rev Light

[Barry]

There are more than enough Airheads around to allow for specials without having to "spoil" an original standard bike. They are rare but if a bike truly is 100% original down to the last nut and bolt I think it should be kept that way on the basis that it could easily have another 35 years ahead of it yet and so the owner may only be a temporary custodian.

Fortunately most Airheads are not greatly afflicted by excessive price inflation so we can still ride them without worry. While I'd love an R90s it would be shame to have a mint one and not want to risk riding it for fear of a spot of rain.  You can have a bike from new and look after it to keep it nice but not mint. That's not possible if it's used regularly. I had my last bike from new for 14 years and it still looked nice but it wasn't mint. There is a slow deterioration at best.

  

[steve hawkins]

I suppose 'Standard' or close to Standard, is also the easiest place to start modifying on.  Undoing another person's neat or not so neat idea's can add to the workload.

If I was in the market, I would be avoiding anything that was advertised as completely standard.  The main reason being the high initial purchase price.  I would also have (mild) concerns about anything that is very low miles, or had spent a long time in 'storage'.  As they often still have that high initial purchase price.  Not running a bike regularly, does a bike no good.  What I would be looking for is a good condition 'runner' that is in current use.

And it has to be said, for every "style guru" or "bike builder" out there, there are 10 muppets with a rattle can and a hacksaw......

One thing that I often come across, especially in the classic bike mags, is a owner who is continually moaning about a previous owner's mods.  Why do people buy 'specials' to return them to standard, and then spend the whole time moaning about it!  If you don't like it, don't buy it!  Or rejoice in the fact that it is still in existence and was cheaper!

Thanks for listening - great therapy

Rev Light

[clonmore1]

"There are more than enough Airheads around to allow for specials without having to "spoil" an original standard bike".
---------------------------------------------------------------

I am not so sure Barry,

Maybe the larger engine size, but 65/45 are rare. Check out any of the online sites for selling bikes and there are always R100's of various guises up for sale with an occasional 65 (even less for the 45).

Surely as time goes by, numbers of decent airheads of all shapes/sizes will diminish?

I said this somewhere else regarding air cooled 911's form the 70's & 80's. Just three years ago, you could pick up a decent one for less then £10k, now try and find one for less than £15k, most are heading for £20k and within 5 years will be out of reach of most 'normal' collectors.

The reason? a trend called 'backdating' (pre impact bumper) where late 70's and all 80's 911's can be backdated to look like the original 911 but with the more modern brakes/steering etc.

Many of the best and original 911's were snapped up and backdated, those that are left (70's) are now north of £20k and rising fast.

I can see the same happening with our airheads as the custom scene takes hold and spreads across the demographics.

Look at this one for example: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/bikes/bmw/r45/postcode/hd96rw/radius/1500/cc-to/500cc/cc-from/0cc/body-type/unlisted/quicksearch/true

and this one;

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C482387

[Julio A.]

Haha, It seems keeping my bike all original would pay off in the long run after all.  

[Luca]

Another reason Porsche 911 prices went through the roof was that the car entered its 50th year of production.  Plenty of fanfare and sticker shock on a bit o' popular history.  Retro bikes like the RnineT or the new Honda CB's aren't gonna help keep two wheeled classics under the radar, either.

Now on to hacking up R65's...

I'm not so torn up about making a "special" out of a standard bike, but when it comes to the LS I feel like I've got a "factory special" already.  I find that most of the modified LS bikes get rid of everything LS except for the wheels (one went so far as to revert to a single brake disc).  So why not just start with a standard R65 and leave this little gem alone?

One day the hipsters are going to decide that Hans Muth was the man and the quirky 80's styled LS will become popular and expensive.  We only started with 6400 of them worldwide and that number is surely dropping.  If I can ever bear to sell it in the future I'm willing to bet it could one day add a considerable chunk of money to my retirement.

But for now I ride the bike all over the place.  It's stored indoors, but it gets ridden in rain and cold weather.  It's seen road salt and I don't wait for them to sweep the streets before I take it out in the spring.  I got it with about 5K miles and put a lot of work in to make it roadworthy.  Any parts I've removed are kept safe.  The factory tires and tubes are out in my garage.

[k_enn]

For me, I tend to gravitate towards a "standard" rather than a custom or what they call in the car world a "resto-mod."  Maybe that is because I am a little bit of history buff, with a taste for what I call the "old style european straight up bikes" (as opposed to the fully dressed touring bikes or the crotchrockets).  There is just something about that old style and the idosyncracies of an original or near original bike that appeals to me.  Maybe because it harkens back to a simpler time, and by now is not someting you see very often.  

That being said, I feel it should still be ridden.  Until this week, my only bike was a 1982 R65 of which I was the original purchaser.  To the extent that it is not original, it is at least "new when made."  It gets ridden regularly, and has over 50,000 miles on the clock.  It is no trailer queen or show bike.  It has a bit of a patina which it wears proudly.  One day of cleaning and touching up, and it would show well, but that is not what I have the bike for.  I have it to ride and enjoy.  I like it just the way it is.

k_enn

[steve hawkins]

Chris,

The first bike is a dealer just trying his luck with all the recent interest in these bikes.

The second bike is quite nice.....A couple of thing about it I would want to look at.  But generally quite nice.  However the price sticks in the throat a bit.  Its been built with an eye for making profit, or at least recouping expenditure.  I.e. its been built for the wrong reasons.

Not for me, I'd rather do it myself.

Cheers

Rev Light

[clonmore1]

Hi Steve,

Yeah I agree, but it kind of makes my point, interest in Airheads is growing.

The second actually is nice, I agree with you, but the price?

In the end though the bike is for riding.

Enjoy the fine weather in sunny Swindon, have you ever ridden the backroad to Salisbury (to Marlborough, past the school at the end of the village), I bet that is great on a bike!

[Dustybin]

Loads of lovely riding in the Salisbury plain and Marlborough area some of my favourite roads and byways for a Sunday afternoon ride with plenty of places to stop for tea and cake!
as an aside I am inclined to agree as far as the comments go for the LS, if I had one it would stay as  intended baring paint but maybe with no luggage attached!!! Pull pin drop grenade and walk out.
I also like the second bike even at 4k I bet it will get sold, as far as the 45 is concerned there is a reason that they are rare and that is a lack of power but I am sure that it can be modified into a R65 with a bit of effort.
Re perfection I have a BMW 118d coupe with an N47 Diesel engine ,you want to read some of the  internet threads on that little gem and make your own mind up about BMW perfection!

[Barry]

I didn't realise prices had gone up so much already although they are both probably over priced. If they just kept pace with inflation that would do for me.

[ShutterPilot]

I certainly see the merit on both sides of "standard" versus "customized", but my very first experience with MCs in my 20's placed me firmly in the "standard" camp. my first bike was a '78 CB750 SOHC that had been customized by the PO with standard '70s upgrades: Wiondjammer fairing with radio, twin red fiamm horns, Shoei locking hard cases, and saddleman double bucket touring seat.
The bike was in great shape, and was very comfortable for two-up touring, but I could immediately see it paled in looks to its "original" configuration in my humble opinion.
So, while I think my new-to-me, completely original, '81 R65 would "look" better with an R100 tank, peanut covers, monoposto seat and clip-ons...(I wanna do these mods real bad)...I always think back to how I felt about the CB750, and how impressed I was with the ever-decreasing numbers of "original" versions I saw, and appreciate that the POs of my R65 kept everything intact, even the pulse air system - so thats how I mean to enjoy her.

But I don't think there should be any "THE" way to enjoy these machines...if nothing else, motorcycling is still about originality. And the more original I'm able to keep my R65, the more I can appreciate the work and vision that went into someone else's mods.

[Motu]

My bikes tend to be not standard, I modify them to suit my needs.  Apart from 1971 when as a 17 year old I made my bike into a chopper, I don't modify a bike for looks, so I'm not going to make a chopper, bobber or cafe just because it looks cool.  

OK, so I've got a streettracker - but a BMW streettracker is a ridiculous ...it's not made to look cool because streettrackers are the in thing.  I wanted certain handling, so changed the bars and tyres....needing guard changes, the stock seat is no good for my riding, so the seat is a custom one off.  The stock exhaust is shot, so I made my own.

Now the bike is a commuter, it's almost reverting to stock....it will always evolve into what I need that the time.