Getting Titled and Registered

[darrylri]

Part I:  
My new-to-me '81 R65 was a gift from a friend who resides near Grants Pass, Oregon.  And although he's the original owner of the bike, and he has the original Certificate of Origin from BMW NA, the Oregon DMV at some point decided to put their own VIN sticker on the frame (because the sticker on the bottom right frame rail is a real PITA to read, apparently), and it is titled as such.  (Not only that, but the idiots there put their sticker on upside down.)

If you actually take the effort to look, the sticker is completely original and legible (barely).  Also, the matching last 7 digits are stamped into the right side gusset at the headstock.  

I knew this was going to be inconvenient.  In California, in such a situation you must have the VIN verified by a "peace officer".  It used to be that any cop could do it for you, but things have become bureaucratic and now if the CA DMV decides you need a verification, they fill out two forms and require you to make an appointment with the CHP.

I have a friend who is a retired SFPD cop, so I preemptively got him to come by and fill out the form.  I'm so clever.

NOT.  I walked into the DMV and was very fortunate that I got called up within 10 minutes.  My luck ended there.  Regardless of the form, the two numbers confused the DMV clerk and his supervisor, so they decided I needed to visit the CHP anyway.  

So, I called up the CHP office to make an appointment yesterday.  Luck returned and I was able to set up an appointment in the afternoon.  Then I remembered that the power was out and the bike was up on my Handy lift.  So I backed the truck up to the lift and rolled the bike straight across.

[darrylri]

Part II:
The officer was friendly, but not very knowledgable.  We went around and around about what number was where and why it might be like that.  He did finally agree that the numbers were all the same. modulo little details like the "WBM" was printed on the frame sticker, rather than etched in, and the Oregon VIN had OR in place of WBM.  

Then he discovered that the EPA sticker under the seat didn't mention California, which would make it illegal to register here.  But after talking to someone, he realized that only applied to new vehicles (defined as having fewer than 7500 miles; this bike has 169,000 miles), so that scare went away.

He had also found a clerical error that the DMV clerk had made, and while talking to them, they pointed him at someone who "knew all about VIN numbers".  Unfortunately, this source told him that the full 17 digit VIN ought to be stamped in the headstock, which I don't believe is true.  (Anybody really know?)

So, now I'm going to get a California assigned VIN number.  Rather than a sticker, California has a plate that is to be rivetted to the frame.  The officer did this over the Oregon sticker.

I stopped by the DMV at 4pm yesterday, but even in the rain, there was a line out the door.  I will try again this morning...

[Bob_Roller]

I had quite a bit of trouble transferring the title and registration on my '81 R65, after moving to Arizona .

I had a copy of the manufacturers certificate of origin, original bill of sale ( I'm the original owner), Illinois title, and registration .

The problem they had, was the sticker on the frame below the right cylinder, was not legible to the inspector .

[Mike V]

Darryl,
I'm in much the same situation with my 81 R65. I purchased this bike over 15 years ago from a friend, it sat until last year when I started the restoration without filing a non-operational status at the DMV at the time of purchase. I've been researching what needs to be done to clear the title. After the CHP completes the VIN Verification papers (form Reg343) you can get the remainder of the legal duties accomplished at the AAA office! "If" you're a member. If not, it may be a good time to join this organization. You can bypass the DMV entirely once the VIN verification forms are completed, and have your AAA agent do all the remaining work without the obsurdity of dealing with the DMV.

I would recommend calling your AAA office for details and your specific situation.

[Ed Miller]

Who gave you the bike, Darryl?  There's a guy who posts on the Airlist sometimes with an '81 R65 named Deerslayer, and he's from Grants Pass.  Jim von Stein, or something like that.

Just curious.

My '81 has the old, pretty much illegible factory sticker, but Oregon has never put anything else on.  It was probably registered here originally when the sticker was legible.  My VIN according to Oregon is just the last 7 digits.

[MrRiden]

Your '81 will not show the full 17 digit VIN at the headstock. The full VIN is typically on a flimsy little decal below the right cylinder. I feel your pain as my state has also come up with a bogus number that does not pass the modulo calculation for a valid VIN but yet there it is on my title and registration. On emissions inspection they refused to perform the test because they could not find a legeable 17 place VIN on the bike so off to a level 2 and 3 inspection at my cost to get paperwork from these same knuckleheads. Now every year I present the bike for emissions I have to go through the same drill. I present the paperwork which states "VIN not readable" then ask the inspector what the heck he is looking for on the bike. When he says the VIN I then direct him back to the level 3 inspection document and ask " what part of VIN un readable don't you understand"? Use to be fun now it's just dumb.

[darrylri]

Part III:
I'm not finishing things up today.  I forgot that due to California's ongoing budget problems, the DMV is closed on (some?) Fridays.

Mike V:  I'm a long term AAA member, and I tried going in there first to avoid the official hassle.  But they don't deal with out of state titles.

Ed Miller:  Yes, it's Jim von Stein's old bike, Deerslayer.  Add that to my R1200ST that I went deer hunting with last fall and I have Deerslayer and Deersslayer.  

MrRiden:  Thanks for the confirmation.  I was pretty certain just having the last 7 was correct.  I'm very leary of anyone who claims to be a "VIN expert".  At least I'm through that part, and as soon as I actually can finish the registration, I should be done with California's bureaucracy, at least insofar as this bike goes.

[Mike V]

Darryl,

My heart goes out to you. Best of luck with the process, keep us informed on your journey through the quagmire.

[nhmaf]

So many DMV offices, so many states, so many complete idiots.

As you have unfortunately learned the hard way, the 17-digit VIN numbers were coded on thin foil stickers that were glued to the frame in a place that left them very prone to damage (thanks alot BMW).   The bike's serial numbers (not to be confused with the VIN, but in pre-VIN era years, this was all that one had to go by) are stamped by the headstock, and the serial number digits are also stamped on the engine casing when the bike was assembled at the factory.

I'm beginning to think that I might consider putting a clear laminate plastic over the VIN foil sticker on Tillie to help prevent further corrosion and stone chips from rendering it totally illegible.

[darrylri]

Part IV:
I did finally get registered today.  Adding insult to injury, because I bought the bike last month, even though it was not running at that time and I did not begin the California registration process until the middle of this month, my shiny new California registration is only good through December this year.

But nevermind that.  It and I am legal, and the rain is supposed to clear out after tomorrow.

[Darwin_R65]

good to hear you got through the bureaucracy. Makes the MVR here in Darwin seem  like it has geniuses (that's sarcasm for anyone in the Darwin MVR reading this).

It's frustrating when these so-called experts have no-idea on what they're inspecting. It would be nice if they had reference material hey could use, but then again maybe they do and choose not to refer to them.

When i was registering my 1962 Valiant (in US it's a Plymouth 1960 Valiant) I got into an argument over what was the correct engine number, as the previous owner had on his rego papers the block cast number NOT the serial number. The block cast number was easier to read I guess. Even showing them the original workshop manual with serial number location identified they took some convincing.

I began to think they took an IQ test for job application and were only accepted if you failed.

[Flash]

Be glad you're not trying this in Massachusetts. Here they'll tell you to scrap the bike.

[Bengt_Phorqs]

So how would you register a bike in Mass. if you rebuilt it from a frame and an engine?  How do custom builders manage to title a bike?  One would think there has to be some procedure.

[darrylri]

Generally, a "custom bike" gets a new VIN and must meet current regulations.  Could be difficult to make an R65 meet the current EPA, or here in California, CARB, regs, and would be expensive just to run through the process.

The nice CHP officer was telling me that if a bike cannot be legally registered in California, it must be "removed" or destroyed.  
On a related topic, I put my first 26 miles on the R65 today! It runs ok, and is fun to ride, but there are a whole host of new things to tinker with...

• fork seals
• steering head bearings
• finding neutral (sometimes)
• rear brake light switch
• rear brake adjustment
• possible exhaust leak on the left side
• throttle gears, carb sync
• ...and just the general grunge that is everywhere on this bike

[nhmaf]

Well, here in NH, they don't title bikes that are over 20 years old.   Even if you have a valid out of state title with you when you go to the NH DMV, they will take it from you and you won't get it back.   The only proof of ownership you have is the registration (and presumably, a bill of sale).

We have several custom bike builders in NH, not too far from the MA line.
I'd expect that any MA customers would buy a new bike from the NH builder with a NH title or certificate of origin, and then get that changed to a MA state title when registering it in their home state.   I don't know of custome bike builders in MA - are there any?