Omega Electronic Ignition idle speed increasing

[MPKaier]

Hi All,
Last year I put an Omega Electronic Ignition in my R65.  It ran perfectly up until it failed one day exiting off the interstate.  Probably a very rare occurence, thanks to the ingeniousness of the system I was able to diagnose the problem and switch back to the points in about 5 minutes and was on my way again.  Steve in Canada, the distributor, quickly sent me a new unit without a problem and I sent the old unit back for diagnosis.  My question is if anybody that has the Omega ignition has difficulty getting the idle speed stay steady once the bike is warmed up.  I find that after several miles of riding the idle speed keeps increasing and increasing. The timing and advance are spot on with about a 5-7 minute warm up,  Idle speed just under 1000 and advanced checked at 4000 rpms but after riding, the idle speed keeps going up to finally stop at just under 2000 rpms  When I switch back to the points, the idle speed returns to perfect. Has anybody else encountered this?  I really want to run with the Omega System.  It would be nice never to have to adjust points again.  Any advise would be greatly appreciated.  

Thanks,
Mike
79 bmw R65

[Justin B.]

Mike, I don't have an Omega but it doesn't sound "normal" at all.  Did the original do this as well or is it only happening with the replacement?  I would bounce this off Stephen as you might have received a flaky replacement.

[MPKaier]

I was wondering that.  I hope not. The origninal unit ran exactly as it was suppose to.  I went for about a 30 mile ride to the store yesterday on the points and the idle speed was spot on at all stops and traffic lights.  I then came back and switched to the Omega and went for another ride.  I will say that the bike runs much better on the Omega, except for the run-a-way idle speed.  I did notice that if I get stopped for more than a couple of minutes the high rmp idle speed will suddenly drop to a normal 1000.
Could the points somehow be compenstating or hiding something that the accuracy of the Omega picks up?
The plugs look fine with a light brownish gray color, with both the points and the Omega.  

I wonder.

Thanks,
Mike
79 R65
2001 Triumph Adventurer
1958 triumph cub

[airhead]

I would say to set up the carbs when fully hot on the Omega, and see if it still does it. Maybe like you said, the better ignition at idle is showing up a minor balance/mixture issue. All things considered, it seems to emulate a common carb tuning issue of not being set up when fully hot.
I've found the R65's are real finnicky when it comes to setting up the carbs, where as their larger displacement cousins are particularly easy. Maybe it's due to the smaller displacement taxing the 32mm Bings air flow at idle..............dunno, but that's my theory (and the opinion of a Beemer mechanic friend).
I've got an Omega sitting on my project 90/6 at the moment (but not run so far), and have had close feedback about several fitted to bikes that I've recommended, and so far no issues at all. Hopefully yours is just as I say and only carb set up.

Bill.....................;-)

[MPKaier]

Thanks Bill,
I just had dinner with a friend of mine, who owns several airheads, and he pretty much confirmed your thoughts.  His recommendation was to turn the air mixture screw in 1/4 turn, although he couldn't quite remember what way to turn it.  If that didn't work then go back out a 1/2 turn.  His thought were that the air/mix wasn't just right and that the points being a little sloppy could be masking the carb set up.  I turned the screw in a 1/4 turn and will take the bike for a run tomorrow, since it's night-time here on the east cost of the US, not that night time's a problem it's the threat of an approaching storm with freezing rain at close to 32 deg. F.  If yours and Dave's assumption is correct, I will let you know.  Thank you again.


Mike

[Justin B.]

Bill's advice is the way to go and also tighten the connections between the carbs/heads.  I don't think you have any vacuum fittings on the bottom of '79 carbs, but if you do check them as well as downstream vacuum leaks will cause idle speed to rise.  Normally a "creeping idle" is a problem with the stock ignition and the Omega unit bypasses all of the typical faulty mechanisms.

[tagordon]

My 2 cents.
After rebuilding my carbs, I had difficulty balancing & idle speed would wander up to 2000 rpm or more.
I read some where, to first:
1. Adjust valves. Then:
2. Adjust/sync choke cables. Then:
3. Adjust/sync carb/throttle cables. Then:
4. Balance carbs.
So I adjusted to .006 intake & .008 exhaust. (Seems to run better than @ .004 & .008)
Then adjusted/sync'd choke cables.
Next sync'd the carb cables.
Balanced pretty well then.
When doing the choke cables I loosened completely & went for a ride.
Idle prob gone.
So was confident to continue this route to reach balance.
HTH
Troy

[MPKaier]

Hi All,
 I wanted to thank everyone for their advise.  Turns out that I needed to turn the air/mix screws out about 5/8 of a turn.  The bike idles at about 1000, right where it should even after a good ride down the highway.  So the conclusion is, The Omega Electronic Ignition unit seems to pick up slight imperfections in tuning that the points mask.  After adjusting, I put the TwinMax carb sync on to check my balance.  


Thanks Again for some great advise.

Mike

[Semper Gumby]

HI Mike,

I have had a similar experience.  I traced it to not enough play between the throttle cable and the top of the RH carb.  Sometimes it hangs up, sometimes it doesn't.  Depends on where the throttle cable is postioned.  Improper tuning by bonehead owner (me).  

BTW- 23'F (-5'C) and it started right up this morning in Atlanta.  How long did you have the Omega before it failed?  Mine has worked flawlessly for a year and 7 months or 19000 miles.  When I do the service I just put a timing light on and then close it up as nothing has changed!!!

[scottyintex]

I put a omega charging system on last May and have had no problems with idle speed or anything else connect to the electrical system.  My idle sits pretty steady...warm or cold............just doesn’t move much at all.... runs at just a little over 1000 rpm. Glad ya found the problem..... I do like the omega system.

[airhead]

I put a omega charging system on last May and have had no problems with idle speed or anything else connect to the electrical system.  My idle sits pretty steady...warm or cold............just doesn’t move much at all.... runs at just a little over 1000 rpm. Glad ya found the problem..... I do like the omega system.

Mike is talking about the Omega Ignition system taht replaces the points or beancan, they are different companies all together. In fact, I think if you have the Omega charging system you can't mount the Omega ignition system as it is crank driven (off the alternator).

Bill.......................;-)

[Semper Gumby]

I put a omega charging system on last May and have had no problems with idle speed or anything else connect to the electrical system.  My idle sits pretty steady...warm or cold............just doesn’t move much at all.... runs at just a little over 1000 rpm. Glad ya found the problem..... I do like the omega system.

Mike is talking about the Omega Ignition system taht replaces the points or beancan, they are different companies all together. In fact, I think if you have the Omega charging system you can't mount the Omega ignition system as it is crank driven (off the alternator).

Bill.......................;-)

As Churchill would say " Aah Nooo"

Hi Bill,

I have both the Omega Alternator and the Omega Ingnition installed on my R65 and they work just fine together.  The Omega Alternator just replaces the inards of the stock Bosch 280 watt Alternator.  You still have the stock Bosch Alternator housing after conversion to 400 watts which is what the Omega Ignition needs for mounting.

TTFN,

[airhead]

Achh aye!! As Churchill would say!!

Thanks Bill, I thought about it later and wondered if it was the Endurolast alternator that precluded the fitting of the Omega, knew one of them was a problem.

They still aren't related though, one is Motorrad Elektrik, and the other is plain old Omega.

Was talking to Stephen Bottcher a while back as he was having problems getting the Omega Ignition to work with an Endurolast regulator/rectifier, and asked me in my experience (industrial electronics) what might be the problem. It turned out it may have been due to the rectification method used (thyristors, electrically noisy devices without extensive filtering), the Omega charging system uses plain old diodes.

Bill...............;-)

[MPKaier]

People have asked me when I purchased the original Omega Ignition Unit.  It was April of 07 and the failure happened in September of 07.  I would say that hearing from other people that this is a very rare occurence.  I find that the bike runs much, much better with the Omega Ignition System.   I have not heard of anybody else having a failure, but like the ad says, if it fails, swap one wire and your back in business, TRUE. Excellent customer service from Steve, the Omega distributor, also got me back on the road with a replacement.  

[scottyintex]

Ok..........will some someone explain to the uniformed ........ a Omega Ignition Unit replaces the points but why would one want to replace the points.........how is it better??? It sounds complex and complex things......some times don’t work as they should. I do believe simple things are best.....but if this..works better.......without trouble......then I am interested. So, will someone please educate me?