Engine overheated

[skippyc]

Just a reminder EI ignitions physically retard the ignition from full advance to starting timing. Unless the can guess when the next trigger point is coming.

Could you help to elaborate more on this ?

I have no experience with emerald island ignition but other Eis I have used are set to trigger at full advance and wait for the required degrees to come up then trigger the spark. As the revs rise the ei triggers quicker until it triggers instantly at full advance.
If you think about it, if it triggered instantly at idle it would have to guess when the next trigger point was coming to be able to trigger the spark before that point to get the advance needed. It is why we still have advance weights in our bikes because they didn't have computers small enough to fit in an ei. 

[wilcom]

It is why we still have advance weights in our bikes because they didn't have computers small enough to fit in an ei

There is a lot of stuff I don't pay much attention to, such as EI but It amazes me that the EI wouldn't sense the RPM by the speed of the trigger and advance or decrease accordingly with out relying on some sticky weights and old worn out springs...… I guess I gotta get my "Golden Book" of EI out and actually see how it does what it does.

[skippyc]

Retarding the ignition is so much simpler than calculating something in advance.

[georgesgiralt]

Well, whatever the case, EI should have /has provided installation instructions for the can, and the electronic trigger.
I, for one, would start by using the instructions and see what it lead me trough. But I bet that putting the correct valve train lash, correct mixture valve and butterfly stop position will lead me near to a good idle and around the correct speed.
In my line of work, we have a motto : RTFM and apply it ....

[Tony Smith]

Well, whatever the case, EI should have /has provided installation instructions for the can, and the electronic trigger.
....

I didn't get any instructions with mine. If I had I suspect that they would have been embarrassingly short.

1/. Remove your existing bean can and ICU
2/. Replace the above with the EI components
3/. Start bike and adjust timing.

Unfortunately the OP has done a rather good job of borking the entire process by

1/. Thinking that the idle mixture adjustment is the main jet adjustment

2/. Attempting to set idle speed by varying ignition timing.

3/. God knows what other beastly things.


The best thing the OP can do is either:

1/. Read snowbum and the helpful hints offered here by numerous people to return his settings to something approaching a reasonable start point.

2/. If unable to do 1 - pay someone who can.

[skippyc]

It is why we still have advance weights in our bikes because they didn't have computers small enough to fit in an ei.

Is was a poorly worded statement it applies to R65s.
This doesn't apply today because of advances in electronics  in micro computers.

[Tony Smith]

It is why we still have advance weights in our bikes because they didn't have computers small enough to fit in an ei.

Actually, Bosch did make an ICU that was pin compatible with the one used by BMW Motorradd. , they just decided, with the infinite caution that BMW once used to have, that it was a bridge too far and might affect reliability.

[mrclubike]

Well, whatever the case, EI should have /has provided installation instructions for the can, and the electronic trigger.
....

I didn't get any instructions with mine. If I had I suspect that they would have been embarrassingly short.

1/. Remove your existing bean can and ICU
2/. Replace the above with the EI components
3/. Start bike and adjust timing.

Unfortunately the OP has done a rather good job of borking the entire process by

1/. Thinking that the idle mixture adjustment is the main jet adjustment

2/. Attempting to set idle speed by varying ignition timing.

3/. God knows what other beastly things.


The best thing the OP can do is either:

1/. Read snowbum and the helpful hints offered here by numerous people to return his settings to something approaching a reasonable start point.

2/. If unable to do 1 - pay someone who can.

A great big AMEN to that

In other words Tony is spot on !!! 

[wilcom]

It is why we still have advance weights in our bikes because they didn't have computers small enough to fit in an ei

There is a lot of stuff I don't pay much attention to, such as EI but It amazes me that the EI wouldn't sense the RPM by the speed of the trigger and advance or decrease accordingly with out relying on some sticky weights and old worn out springs...… I guess I gotta get my "Golden Book" of EI out and actually see how it does what it does.

Skippyc thanks for poking my brain! 

I get to thinking like a millennial at times. Even at my advanced state of antiquity (old as dirt) I get to thinking like we have always walked around with smart phones and had internet access as we roam the land.

I can remember when the a hand held calculator was a "very big deal" and that wouldn't have predated the design of that 1981 ignition by very much. In those days the computer to do what I think is child's play would have filled a room LOLOL.

I think I know as much as I ever did,  but it is getting harder to remember where I filed the stuff   

[Sejati]

Thanks everyone for inputs....

Finally after spending the new year holiday, the timing setting is done. From start, idle and rev, is responding with confident. Revving to 4000 rpm, feels so easy.

Once again openned the Bing, adding quarter turns on the idle mixture, reduce needle jets height to 33mm, ensuring throttle valve fully shut closed. This the final setup I made.
Since flywheel marking is not at correct position, hence I marked alternator just to give a hint of TDC position, and using timing light to see the EI ICU working in advancing the firing position, from this alternator shaft.

Now I need to get one more day off, to test the setup on the road and feel the torque produces at upto 4000 rpm. And checking how’s the thermal issue will be.

Thanks!!

[Tony Smith]

Since flywheel marking is not at correct position, hence I marked alternator just to give a hint of TDC position, and using timing light to see the EI ICU working in advancing the firing position, from this alternator shaft.

Glad to hear you are making progress.

It is possible to put the flywheel on in a number of incorrect positions. It would have been so simple for BMW to incorporate a keyway to prevent that but they didn't.......

Your process of making the TDC position on the alternator is a good one - Next use a protractor to make a mark to set whatever you want your maximum advance to be and time your bike whilst holding it at least 3,500rpm.

Sadly you are going to have revisit the matter of your incorrectly timed flywheel. Another thing BBMW decided not to incorporate in our machines is a gearbox spigot bearing, the effect of this is that the system is reliant on the skill and care of the owner/mechanic in centering the flywheel.

Given that you are going to be taking the gearbox off and disassembling the clutchpack you should probably buy a clutch centering tool.

On the topic of tools to buy - if you do not already own them you will need a decent set of feeler gauges (for centring the swing arm when you put it back in after doing the flywheel, in addition to their traditional use with tappet clearance, a timing light and some vacuum gauges (for synchronising the carbs) You can easily make your own manometer for carb balance for pennies, but please read the instructions first.

Good luck

[Sejati]

Dear Tony,

Thanks for this input upfront, actually I still don't have confident level to deal with the gearbox unit and flywheel. It seems need more precision and special tools involved. Although I feel a bit difficult in changing from 1st to 2nd gear. But I'm just a weekend technician with limited tools.

I will put it aside for later, as first I will taste the fruit of this works, enjoying the ride on this upgraded engine from 650cc to 860cc. I feel a little bit stronger vibration, but I think it is still enjoyable.

As the summary from this project, the Siebenrock 860cc with EI Alpha ignition upgrade are good change parts. More justification to come after I put some mileage on it.

Cheers..

[mrclubike]

Dear Tony,

 I feel a bit difficult in changing from 1st to 2nd gear. 

  upgraded engine from 650cc to 860cc. I feel a little bit stronger vibration, but I think it is still enjoyable.
Cheers..

The gear changing should get better as you get used to it
I know it took me a while
But after I rebuilt the trans I understood why it was like that

I also had more vibration after installing a Big bore kit
 I didn't like it so i took it off but I left the 37/11 final drive on it  and loved  the higher gearing even with the 650 bores