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Author Topic: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?  (Read 9218 times)

Offline Tony Smith

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anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« on: April 08, 2016, 07:56:16 PM »
I'm toying with the idea....

The last time I though about this was way back when "madam's" R65 was still a 1979 650cc in all its breathless glory. I could not find *anyone* who had a positive experience of capacity increases in an R65.

Right now I have a high ratio top gear to fit and a new rear drive spline/drive collar pair waiting for me to decide if I am going to fit them to the existing 32:9 final drive or try and buy a 32:10 to play with.

When I built the R65 I didn't have any real intention of keeping it, but the little bugger has sort of grown on me a bit.

When I still could (I can't benz zee knees like I once could) I loved riding madam's R65/80 because it quite frankly is a pocket rocket witht he R80 engine.

The bottom end of my R65 is strong and done few miles, I am tempted to fit the 20% over 5th gear and a 32:10 final drive and a 850cc kit to it.

From all reports the Seibenrock 1,000cc kit for R60/75/90 is quality gear so I guess that would also be the case for the 650~850cc kit as well. I also think that by gearing the thing up to dramatically drop revs through the gears and particularly in top gear I would remove the No.1 cause of failure (IMLHO) namely sustained high revs.

What do other people think of the idea? The R65 engine is somewhat lighter and a hell of a lot narrower than the R80 - believe me you do notice it profoundly swapping between a R65 and R65/80 (i can ride madam's bike with my seat on it) - far more than you would think that you would in fact.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline nhmaf

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 08:43:56 PM »
I cannot recall which of our members bought one with the kit installed already - maybe it is wirespokes(?)  In any case, he seems to have quite good experience with it thus far.  
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline mrclubike

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 08:56:34 PM »
Tony
where do you get a 20% over 5th gear
I have only seen the 5%
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 09:02:34 PM »
Quote
Tony
where do you get a 20% over 5th gear
I have only seen the 5%


In an addled, aged brain, that's where.....5% i meant 5%. My Bad.

Motobins sell them in both pre and post April 1984 varieties.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Barry

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 09:08:02 AM »
Quote
In an addled, aged brain, that's where.....5% i meant 5%. My Bad.


1/20th is 5% - makes perfect sense !
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline tunnelrider

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2016, 03:59:58 AM »
I was thinking of getting the kit also when I found a wee nick in my Nikasil barrel.  I think it'd be great, esp if you fit higher gearing.  Don't know of anyone who has actually used the upgrade kit though sorry.

After a couple of recommendations I decided to re use my barrel so the price of the upgrade kit suddenly became too much, but I think it'd be a fun thing to do.
'85 Black R65 / '74 GT185 / '83 Pantah 500 / '01 DRZ400 dirt only

Offline nhmaf

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2016, 07:31:18 PM »
Finding an 81+  R80 cylinder and headset used and in good nick would probably get you most of the way there, too.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 09:30:31 PM »
Quote
Finding an 81+  R80 cylinder and headset used and in good nick would probably get you most of the way there, too.


Using R80 jugs was always the starting point - But they need to be "trimmed" to suit the short stroke of the R65. Measuring the amount to trim off and paying someone to do that work is non-trivial and would I suspect add up to a tidy sum very quickly.

At the moment the whole thing is a "flight of fancy" on my part, I'm really only interested in doing it if it is a bolt up job and if I am not buying myself a world of disappointment.


I have to say that my research in the early 80s turned up a few people who had by various means increased the capacity of the R65 engine, at that time none were deliriously happy with the results for reasons such as vibration and short life.

When in 1987 the original R65 engine in my wife's bike dropped a valve and punched a rod out of the block I could have obtained an r65 engine with damage to the opposite side nothing. At that time I again investigated "big bore" kits for the r65 and again could only turn up a few people who had done it. Also in keeping with my research of a few years prior the only peopel who professed happiness with their big-bore R65s strangely seemed to want to sell them to me rather than enjoy all that new found power.

Against all that my thinking is:-
The R65 bottom end is just as tough as any other Airhead - the only real difference being the cam followers and then they were only changed to keep the push-rod angles more or less the same as other airheads.

Seibenrock are a mature and well respected manufacturer who generally make well regarded products. The only negative I have seen regarding their R65 big-bore kit is that 2 independant tuning houses say that they have used entirely the wrong "squish" band for the pistons and that you need to modify the squish in either the heads or the pistons (one of the tuning houses showed detail of how they modify R80 pistons).
 
Now this may seem trivial to some people but the squish band in the combustion chamber is pretty much where trouble free performance lives and dies given the poor quality lead free fuels we must now use.

What I really want is someone who had fitted one to tell me dispassionately how it runs on 92 Octane (RON method) unleaded fuel and whether the whole experience is "pleasant" or not.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 05:34:25 AM »
Tony,
The BMW OEM set is available at a mere 1388 Euro the lot (2 jugs, 2 pistons with rings and wrist pin, gaskets ) and the Siebenrock 860 cc kit is at 950 Euro the lot.
For this price, BMW offers the shipping in Europe  :D but you have to buy the pistons after having got the jugs because you can choose the piston size but not the jug size...

Except for the squish band on the pistons, I bet that longevity of the "upgrade" kit is up to you. Crankshaft and engine case can manage the extra power and I bet the conrod too. I would be more concerned by the double valve spring Siebenrock advocate. This may place a higher load on the camshaft, tappets, and actuator rods. Bear in mind that maximal torque is increased but at a lower RPM than the original figure...
I will be on the market for this kind of parts in a couple of years (minimum) or five years from now. So I _do_ hope you will have something to report then ;-)

Hammer65

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 08:02:37 PM »
Tony,

I just fitted the upgrade from Siebenrock to my 79 r65.  Did it a week ago today, I'm still running the new parts in but so far I have noticed a substantial increase in "oomph" on the lower end, the couple hundred CC really is noticeable.  I live in San Francisco so the biggest thing I've noticed is I don't have to crank up the revs to get the bike started up a hill.  

Installation was easy as apple pie.  I'm overall very happy with how its running, been feeding it 92 octane. No pinging or anything strange.   This combined with a spline lube, new valves, and a EME electric ignition- the bike feels brand new and is very responsive.    I read all that about the squish band too, i wanted to try it without modifying anything, maybe at some point I'll buy another set of pistons and have them machined a bit and we will see. For now I'm quite happy.    

Everything I needed came in the kit, new rings, new gaskets and push rod rubbers.   I'll keep you updated if I run into anything strange.  
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 08:03:38 PM by Hammer65 »

Offline Luke D.

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 02:15:58 PM »
Good day Hammer65,

  I know that bumping a year and some change old thread may not work but I was curious about how your kit has been working after some time.  I just got back from a trip out to Montana and Colorado area and I wanted to look into a little more power. :) (of course you shouldn't have to take a trip to want MORE POWER :) )  Thank you and have a great day.
Dont worry and be happy!

1982 R65LS

Offline mrclubike

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2017, 07:22:14 PM »
it looks like hammer hasn't been around much
hopefully someone will chime in
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2017, 08:37:15 PM »
Well I actually did buy a kit 9 months ago. Like a lot of my projects it is becoming time extended as I found something else to divert me, namely fitting a K100RS fuel tank, seat and fairing to the poor thing.
 
More recently I have been playing with the oilhead and the R100  awaits attention so it is a case of "watch this space" for fitting the big bore kit.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline mrclubike

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 10:08:54 PM »
 We will be here waiting  ::)
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R

Offline mrclubike

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Re: anyone have experience with Seibenrock 850cc kits?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2019, 06:41:26 PM »
Hello all
My 7rock big bore kit is hung up in customs
It is coming from MotoBins
Should have it this week
Right now I am trying to get a good serviceable final drive off of eBay
The first one was junk (bad pinion gear see picture )
Looks like someone set the pinion to deep  >:(
Lets hope the second one is better
I am going with the 37/11  although I suspect  it would pull a 32/10  just fine
I may also fit a taller 5th gear eventually
We ride a lot of hills and didn't want to go to high   
I am also trying to use the old style final drive because it has a oil catcher if the drive side seal starts leaking and NO Orings on the brake shaft  ;D

I decided to go ahead and try it because the splines on my current final drive are nearing the end of there service life and it was going to need repairing anyway

Stay posted  ;D
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 06:47:02 PM by Mrclubike »
1982 R65 running tubeless Snowflakes
2004 R1150R