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Author Topic: electric's mystery....  (Read 3764 times)

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2007, 04:48:53 PM »
The ignition control module sits just aft of the ignition coil, and just forward of the voltage regulator, a metal can with usually red tape around the lower part.

If you go the post of 'Who knows the darkness that lurks under the tank', you can see it there, also the module is shown removed as well as the heatsink.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 04:51:06 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

milkman

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007, 03:23:46 PM »
Ahh...thanks
I shall investigate this evening.

Ian_R

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2007, 03:40:51 AM »
Hi Milkman

I have been following your post for a while and it seems sort of reminiscent of things that were wrong with mine.  

This intermittent misfire may well still be carburettor related but I don't know anything about them so I will stay off that. EXCEPT that I hope you did not use high pressure compressed air when cleaning your carbies. That's a no-no - it just pushes dirt further in. I learned THAT the hard way!

You state your problem arises when hot. Electrical resistance increases with heat. Resistance causes problems ... Hmmm Sounds electrical.

The Haymes manual has a pretty good diagnostic page which I very cleverly ignored for two years ... DO IT by the book. If you don't have it I can 'lend' it to you.

Buy yourself a pocket multimeter from Jaycar or AutoPro.

Haymes manual states 4 causes of problems - in order

HAYMES
a) faulty spark plugs, supressor caps and HT leads

Replace them all. (I think you have)
I use Bosch plugs and those 'off the rack' blue leads you get at any AutoPro store ( the blue matches the BM logo) They are very reliable. Ugly but reliable.

HAYMES
b) Loose, broken, or corroded connections or damaged wiring.

OK so you say you have gone over the wiring ... yeah, that's what I said!

Old wiring (and that's what we are dealing with) need not be 'corroded' in the sense of showing greenish build-up or dirt. The surface of connectors over time builds up an invisible, microscopic layer of ENAMEL causing poor connection and resistance. This must be removed from ALL connections, inside and out. Grind down the end of a flat needle file to the size of a spade connector. You can buy them at the local hardware. Pic attached.

Use it to file out the female connections as well as cleaning up the male spades. Then use CRC Automotive Electronics Cleaner (Code 5013) (this one won't eat your plastics). Pay particular attention to the orange connector plug under the alternator cover (from the bean can to the main loom). It gets overlooked. FILE all connectors aggressively (within reason).

NEXT pay attention to your earth points which is where any brown wire reaches the frame. File off all the surfaces. Clean the bolts etc with a wire brush.

NEXT do your fuses and fuse block.

NEXT check your battery connections to the frame, loom, gearbox and battery itself. File off the enamel. It will be there.

NEXT remove your ignition main switch. Clean the outside connections as above if you haven't already done so. Using the CRC Electronics cleaner, FLOOD the inside of the switch and turn it aggressively and repeatedly back and forth through its entire range. Do this 10 or 12 times until the fluid going in runs out clear. You will be surprised at the crap that comes out. Repeatedly actioning the switch will help clean the contacts inside which will also be enamelled. If it falls apart, and it might, you will have found your problem.

NEXT This gets a bit tricky. Find any connections in the loom that have been soldered. Soldered connections in motorcycle looms crack due to vibration and do not create very good connections. Remove the solder and reconnect with crimp fittings. The tricky bit is deciding what BMW soldered - such as the diode board. So only look at the general 'outside' wiring loom. If in doubt leave it out.

HAYMES
c) Wear or damage to the advance mechanism

I had no reason to do this and haven't ever. There are other posts on how to do it. I WOULD do it in this case, but only if the problem persisted after the above 'loom clean'

HAYMES
d) Faulty electrical components.

It's not the coil, you know that and the sensors rarely fail. Beyond my expertise (or lack of it)

NEXT put it back together and see how it goes.

I did my bike twice before I fixed 'something', but I suspect that it was corrosion/enamel build up in the orange plug under the alternator cover.
My friend had to do this process three times to his Guzzi before it worked for him. But it did.

My R65 went from going "OK for an old BMW' to 'bloody fantastic, can't believe the difference'.

Takes 4 hours and 4 cans. Or 2 hours and 1 can etc.

PS My instrument mounting bracket was rusted too but came up remarkably well by removing all the paint and respraying. I thought it was a bin job.

PPS Use only Premium Unleaded.
If you use the same petrol station all the time and have trouble, try another one. For instance Ducatis misfire on United. Old Triumph twins run like crap on BP. In fact, don't use BP.

Good luck
I'm in Melbourne if you want to ring. 5967 3218

And for a test ride ... there's the Southern Classic races at Broadford Saturday and Sunday.

thrang

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 01:46:28 PM »
Could well be the heat sink then if i ran fine under cold conditions.

milkman

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007, 02:33:17 PM »
Thanks again folks.
I've been reluctant to pull too many wires apart etc while its still running ok, expecting I'l make it worse, but thats where I'm up too.

Thanks for the comprehensive outline.

Funnily enough I am using BP, but I've always used the same station (not to say they aren't watering it down).

I have a big ride this saturday with some SR500 club fellas, but I'm taking the R65 (its my "good" bike), so we'll see how things go.

Ian_R

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2007, 08:03:25 PM »
Don't use BP unleaded in an air-cooled engine. They won't be 'watering it down' it's the additives that BP puts in their mix. OK for water cooled engines but air cooled engines run at considerably higher temperatures than water cooled.

Drain your tank and experiment by purchasing only a small amount from different stations.

I use Premium Unleaded from an independent that does NOT include ethanol. I know them well enough to ask them and get an honest answer. I suspect that some of the biggies are including ethanol and not telling anyone.

You won't make it worse by doing what I suggested to your wiring loom.

SR 500? Is that one of those Yamaha single things?







milkman

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2007, 05:44:25 PM »
Sure is,
1 cylinder, 2 valves,  500cc.
Heavier road going version of the XT500 (sort of, very closely related)

airhead

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2007, 03:00:01 AM »
Ah, yes, my SR500 was much beloved and only sold because my (now ex) wife thought a bike and VW Beetle were too much. Now realise which one I should have parted with instead!!!!
My new wife has no problems with me having a car and three bikes (though I'd better not push it!! LOL).
Here's a pic of my new (then) '79 SR500, loved it as much as I do my Airheads.




Bill......................;-)

Ian_R

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2007, 06:18:45 AM »
Yes, I remember when these first came out in Oz. Must have been back in the early 70's?

The very first model had some bad press about being hard to start.

The story goes that because of the starting problems a couple of Yamaha employees (or it might have been the importers, not sure) approached the late, legendary Phil Irving and asked for an assessment of the bike related to the starting problems.

So Phil agreed and was duly delivered a brand new bike.

Some weeks later after he had assessed the bike and written his report which was basically that the kick start ratio was too high and the flywheels too light, the same chaps turned up to retrieve it.

Unfortunately for them Phil had completely stripped the engine and gearbox, measured and done the assessment and chucked it all in the corner. Putting it back together wasn't even thought about.
They weren't happy! But Phil was.

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2007, 01:46:47 PM »
Hey milkman,

Do a plug check/cut from that flat spot range.  If its running fine at start, it could be running too rich in that mid spot after warm up.   Get the engine into the flat spot and kill it with the kill switch.  Some people suggest using a new set of plugs for this.   :-/

Good luck,
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

milkman

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Re: electric's mystery....
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2007, 01:06:06 AM »
Plugs are a good colour, but i haven't done a cut at that rev range.

The things with teh cabrs is, they were great before this problem arose, with change having been made to the carbs since (except beng pulled apart and cleaned).

Haven't had a chance to pull it apart again yet, been too busy riding it anyway.

The search continues

Airhead, that SR is beautiful. You should get another. Good web forum for them now, with a couple of WA (Western Australia, not Washingtonboys in there).
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 01:08:38 AM by milkman »