The thread where I ask questions about my new R65L

[misterpepper]

New tires are installed. I had to use tubes because the tires I bought are tube type, so that cost me a couple pounds. I'm not going total weight weenie, though. All my bearings checked out, including the head tube, so I don't think that's where my deceleration wobble was coming from. Early tests are that the new tires has solved it, though. I went with 120/80 rear and 110/80 front. I know that's a little wider than stock (well, a lot wider in front), but it doesn't seem to be a problem. If anything the steering feels lighter. Maybe the wider front is a big enough diameter change to affect the geometry, or maybe the new tires have less of a flat spot, although the old ones seemed fine. Clearance between the rear tire and the swing arm is roughly 6mm. Pirelli specifies the max mounted width for the 120 tire as 125mm, but it looks to be a little less than that on the LS wheels. Oh yeah, I painted the wheels black, just to piss off the purists. 

For brakes I went with SBC floating rotors and organic pads. No more squealing, which is nice. Stopping seems about the same but the handle pull feels shorter before max grab. They aren't really bedded in yet so things may change.

I had a fair amount of trouble tuning the carbs so here's what finally worked for me. First, I adjusted the valves. Next I made sure the bean can was clean and appeared to be functioning correctly. Then I got the timing set. You can't really set the timing without the valves adjusted or the bean can functioning because both can influence the timing. I made some spark plug "extenders" by grinding down the heads of some appropriately sized (M3?) screws so I could thread them into the tops of the spark plugs and then clip the plug wires to the screws. Trying to short the cylinders and adjust the carbs by ear was beyond my skill set, so I adjusted the idle purposely high and clipped a test lead between the extender and a cylinder fin, one cylinder at a time. With the test lead in place I adjusted the idle to about 800rpm, warmed up of course, running on only one cylinder (due to the test lead shorting the plug of the opposite cylinder). This way I could easily hear to adjust the air/fuel mixture to the optimal setting. With both air/fuel mixtures adjusted I brought the idle back to a reasonable level with both cylinders running. Then, using a homebrew U-tube manometer I was able to easily adjust the idle sync. Be sure to leave probably at least 2' of height above the fluid level in the manometer if using ATF for the fluid. Last, with the manometer still hooked up I set the off-idle sync with the cable barrel adjusters. The bike starts up quicker now and  doesn't need as much choke. It runs quieter, sounds better, idle s more stable and pulls harder. Best "mod" yet. 

After brakes and tires I think I'm good to pass safety now. A couple more fluids to check/change and I'll consider things good for a bit.

[Tony Smith]

First, I adjusted the valves. Next I made sure the bean can was clean and appeared to be functioning correctly. Then I got the timing set. You can't really set the timing without the valves adjusted

I'm curious, how do you figure that?

I made some spark plug "extenders" by grinding down the heads of some appropriately sized (M3?) screws so I could thread them into the tops of the spark plugs and then clip the plug wires to the screws. Trying to short the cylinders and adjust the carbs by ear was beyond my skill set, so I adjusted the idle purposely high and clipped a test lead between the extender and a cylinder fin, one cylinder at a time. With the test lead in place I adjusted the idle to about 800rpm, warmed up of course, running on only one cylinder (due to the test lead shorting the plug of the opposite cylinder). This way I could easily hear to adjust the air/fuel mixture to the optimal setting. With both air/fuel mixtures adjusted I brought the idle back to a reasonable level with both cylinders running.

If you actually wanted to set out to destroy a late model electronic ignition system, what you wrote above would be a very good way to go about it. I am very surprised that it survived the experience.

I'm pretty sure that the prcedure you have used was not intended for anything other than those models with a magneto ignition - put another way, nothing after around 1969.

[misterpepper]

I blame YouTube for my improper education. Out of curiosity what part(s) of the ignition system would I be destroying? The spark always has a path to ground, albeit not via the spark plug.

As for the valves and bean can affecting timing, the bean can is pretty obvious that if it is sticking then timing will be slow to advance or possibly never advance fully during acceleration and at rpm, and too advanced during deceleration and idle if the springs can't retract the weights properly. For the valves, if the adjustment is off they will either be opening or closing early or late, depending on which way they are off, which can have a similar effect as the spark being early or late. I guess you would still be able to time the engine correctly if only the valves are off because the timing is based on the crank, not the camshaft.

[misterpepper]

Well, of all wonderful things to happen, today I was detoured from my leisurely surface street ride into work onto the freeway for a couple of miles. Luckily I had just put the new tires on or I would have turned back. On probably its first freeway ride in over a decade my transmission (or clutch?) started squealing like a banshee. I haven't been able to diagnose the problem yet.

The symptoms are a loud squeal and drag when the bike is in neutral and the clutch is let out. With the clutch in all is quiet and normal, but when the clutch is let out the bike wants to move forward, almost as if it is still in gear somehow. Shifting is much more difficult now and I have to keep pressure on the shifter as I let out the clutch to get it to shift. In all gears I get the squeal as well, but it gets progressively less prominent the higher the gear, meaning it has something to do with engine speed rather than wheel speed. The clutch still works like normal and doesn't seem to be sticking, but I'm not ruling out the clutch plate starting to disintegrate or something. I started a thread over at advrider to see if any of the other airhead guys has any ideas.

What I've tried so far:
Checked the fluid and it appears clean, but a little low. Re-adjusted the clutch as per the recommended procedure. Banged on the case a little with a rubber mallet to see if I could free up anything that might be sticking. Put the front wheel against a wall with the bike in gear and let out the clutch. Rode it around a little (gently) between "fixes" to verify that nothing seems to help. Any ideas? Tomorrow I'll drain and fill the tranny fluid with new. If that doesn't magically fix things it's looking like I may be staring down a transmission swap here in the parking lot.

[Tony Smith]

I blame YouTube for my improper education. Out of curiosity what part(s) of the ignition system would I be destroying? The spark always has a path to ground, albeit not via the spark plug.

Even though both the primary and secondary windings have very low resistance (and especially so the latest iteration), they do not present a dead short.

Grounding the coil increases the overall load putting both the coil itself and the ITU at risk.

But don't take my word for it - see Snowbum's comments on the "ground the plug lead" method of carb sync.

A For the valves, if the adjustment is off they will either be opening or closing early or late, depending on which way they are off, which can have a similar effect as the spark being early or late. I guess you would still be able to time the engine correctly if only the valves are off because the timing is based on the crank, not the camshaft.

Correct - which is why any tuneup session starts with verify correct operation of advance retard and then is followed by setting the timing, then valve clearance, and last you do carb balance and idle setup.

Believe me, you feel pretty "special" when you have spent a morning carefully getting the carbs balanced and idling nicely, then discover that as a result of cam chain wear the timing is a bit retarded, so you advance the timing which then results in a 2,000rpm idle.

[mrclubike]

I would be pulling the tranny apart and checking it out before you do any more damage.
Any more  than seals and bearings gets expensive
Transmission work does require a few special tools to do correctly
The bearing plate is the most costly
I made my own flange puller   

[mrclubike]

Tony
I just read Snowbums article on the shorting method and i think he is good as long as he keeps a path to ground for the spark

[Barry]

The symptoms are a loud squeal and drag when the bike is in neutral and the clutch is let out. With the clutch in all is quiet and normal, but when the clutch is let out the bike wants to move forward, almost as if it is still in gear somehow. Shifting is much more difficult now and I have to keep pressure on the shifter as I let out the clutch to get it to shift. In all gears I get the squeal as well, but it gets progressively less prominent the higher the gear, meaning it has something to do with engine speed rather than wheel speed. The clutch still works like normal and doesn't seem to be sticking, but I'm not ruling out the clutch plate starting to disintegrate or something. I started a thread over at advrider to see if any of the other airhead guys has any ideas.

I had a look at the responses you got on advrider. Anton Largiader knows his stuff so I would take the possibility that a gear has seized on the shaft seriously. And I wouldn't ride it.

[misterpepper]

Having a transmission seize on you while riding brings back memories of things getting jammed in tires of bikes as a kid. Specifically the time my buddy was going downhill buzzing his foot against the tread of his front tire until his shoe got sucked up into the fork, causing him to do a beautifully executed front flip, landing on his butt in the middle of the road. I remember listening to the soothing buzzzzzzzzzz of his shoe against the tire and when the sound turned from a buzz into a skidding sound, looking up in time to catch the acrobatics. The look in his face as he sat there in the middle of the road was priceless. 

Yeah, Anton does seem to know his stuff, and his diagnosis seems the most plausible. I can't come up with another type of failure that would have the same symptoms, namely still trying to pull forward while in neutral, other than internal to the transmission where things are binding and rubbing when they shouldn't be.

[misterpepper]

Initial results after a drain and fill of the transmission are promising. The fluid was a little lower than I thought, probably half full is all. Fluid was thick like honey and mostly clear. No sparkles in the fluid and only a little grey sludge on the drain plug, but there were two tiny chunks about 1.5mm across on the plug. Thinking that there might be more chunks that may have worked themselves into the gear train I rolled the bike back several times, popping the clutch with the bike in various gears, In hopes that I could help them work themselves back out. Shifting was improved, so I started it up. The squeal and lunge in neutral were gone, as was the squeal in 1st and 2nd as I rode it around the parking lot gingerly. Maybe I dodged a bullet. I think I'll ease it home and change the fluid another time or two to make sure there aren't any more chunks floating around, but hopefully fresh fluid is what it was squealing for.

[Barry]

You might have got lucky.  The gears are not submerged in oil even when it's at the correct level, rather the gears lower down pick up the oil and transfer it by splash to the gears higher up in the box. The oil level is therefore critical and it may be that if you were missing half of it the gears weren't getting lubed at all.  When I fill my box I go for level with the lower edge of the hole and then just a tad more for luck.



Take a look at this nice pic I found and note the position of the level hole. I think it illustrates the critical nature of the oil level nicely.

[misterpepper]

Yeah, that picture illustrates it nicely. I'll be more diligent in the future. I was kind of forced into putting this on the road and obviously overlooked a few of the basics.

[mrclubike]

Check you neutral safety switch they are notorious for leaking.
My trans was run low on oil before I had gotten the bike.

I took it apart because the bearings were a little rough and this is what i found
All of the seals looked like this
All I had to replace was the seals , bearings ,springs and the roller on the shifter cam (of course i had to reshim it)
Darn tough transmission 

[misterpepper]

Well I changed the fluid again over the weekend and didn't find any chunks or grit on the drain plug. I've probably put 100 miles or so on it since, and haven't noticed any issues with the transmission. I still plan to open it up and replace the bearings sometime in the near future, but for now I just need transportation. I am getting a little seepage from the gear shift hole, but not enough to worry about.

I did have it cut out on me a few times. I cleaned a couple of connectors, messed with the kill switch, and added new thermal grease to the ICU (it was completely dry) and haven't had a problem since. I ordered a new coil to replace my pre-cracked crack-o-matic just in case. I've heard a new coil might help the engine start up quicker or idle more smoothly, both of which would be welcome.

[misterpepper]

Okay, time for another question. Question 5: what free or nearly free  performance tricks work on our airheads? I've been having troubles starting my LS when it's cold. Having done all I can with tuning the carbs I've started looking at the ignition components. Long story short I just got done indexing and side gapping the plugs, which seems to have helped some. These are old racers tricks that probably don't work on modern engines that have computer modeled intake flows and centrally located spark plugs. Since our plugs are way off to the side of the combustion chamber it only made sense to me to present the plug spark to the main mass of air+fuel in the combustion chamber (indexing the plugs). All it cost me was pulling the plugs, marking where the electrodes were, and then putting them back in the cylinder where the electrode was closest to the top. I got lucky and by swapping plugs they went from mostly wrong to almost perfect. The side-gapping was just because I had read about racers having success with it in the past on other engines. Anyhow, it seems with advances in technology and knowledge there are probably other tricks that would work as well.