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Author Topic: Outer Bearing Races  (Read 3788 times)

Offline skippyc

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  • Shouldn't have sold them old bikes.
Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2016, 05:10:08 PM »
Thanks i will look for some stronger pipe.

Offline Adrian

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2016, 12:09:33 AM »
Well that was so easy to do. this was the one job on the bike I thougt I would struggle with - not the clutch removal or the timing cover removal - but fitting two bearing races.

Well leaving the races in the freezer overnight and heating up the seats on the frame to a temperature that was just too hot to touch - the top race (pic 2) just dropped right in and all the way to the seating and the lower race (pic 1) dropped in almost level with the frame and only needed a block of wood to get it level then a steel punch carefully used on all points of the compass with reasonable force but not excessive - to get it to seat.

Sometimes I am really surprised by how easy something can be on this bike :-)

1984 R65 (860)

clonmore1

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2016, 02:30:45 AM »
That looks a nice job Adrian,

Amazing how you can get worked up about these things, I fret about the carbs...

Offline Adrian

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2016, 03:27:58 AM »
I'm paranoid about my carbs when the bikes running - I'm always tinkering with them when they go off song. I have  proper balancing device that's really good. My old vac gauges weren't that good.
1984 R65 (860)

Offline Barry

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2016, 04:57:22 AM »
I often have the same feeling about tuning. It helps a little to look at what Duane Ausherman said on the topic:


A good BMW twin tuner with a lot of experience will almost never find a perfectly tuned engine.  Each of my mechanics went through a "crazy period" when they were learning to tune carbs.  While riding their own bikes, every few minutes they would reach down and do a slight tweak on a carb.  Eventually, they learned to accept that it would never be perfect.  The very best that you will ever achieve is a workable compromise.  Be happy.




Duane also lists a number of reasons why perfection isn't possible:


 Here are some BMW tuning considerations.  Questions keep coming up about the two carbs and how to synchronize them.  Do you have a "hard to start" BMW motorcycle?  These are only some of the factors in tuning.  This is a mental exercise only and is not intended to be important to anybody at all.  The net effect will be to confuse some riders.  It's amazing that they run so well with all of these factors affecting the tuning.   It is only natural to want to keep your BMW tuned.

1.  The BMW twin is basically two engines with a common crankshaft.  In all tuning aspects, they must be treated as being two separate engines.

2.  The BMW exhaust systems are of a different length, due to the staggered cylinders.  So they tune differently.  A cross wind can change the back pressure between the two sides.

3.  The BMW twin intake is pretty symmetrical for each side, but not exactly.

4.  The right side, of 1970 until about 1980, has some crap (crankcase fumes) dumped into it from the crankcase breather.  This changes the tuning slightly, it's especially noticeable at lower rpm.

5.  The Bing carbs are pretty consistent, but I have found differences between them, don't assume.

6.  The BMW valves may seal unevenly, or may not.  Same for the rings.  Remember the time that you rode for 2 hours in a cross wind? That is when you changed, forever, the two sides.  The cooling was totally different for them.

7.  If the compression is different between the two sides, then one can't expect to balance them.  Compression is measured at low rpm.  At higher rpm they can act differently, and we can't even measure it.

8.  Do you think that the camshaft was made with equal lobes? Maybe so, but do you think that they wore equally? Not likely.

9.  Often the ignition timing is slightly different.  If fact, why even think that these two cylinders even need the same timing? Proof that they don't is that when one encounters a ping (pink in the UK) it is usually on one cylinder.

10.  The BMW timing advance curve is mechanically derived, not "need" derived.  The ideal timing is to be retarded enough to be just under the ping timing at all rpm.  To determine that, one must have the ability to independently change the timing of each cylinder under load.  Then find the optimum timing increments of 50 or 100 rpm.  Then what you see will be the real curve needed.  There is no way to get that mechanically or electrically.  The curves for each cylinder will be very different from each other and from the one provided by the advance mechanism.  That's why one can find that the pinging will be slightly different in each cylinder as it goes through the "ping" rpm range.  One may even find that it only pings in one cylinder.

11.  Have you ever used vacuum gauges to tune the carbs and found them to be way off?.  It is possible, even easy, to get the vacuum equal with the settings at idle and have them run quite differently, even badly.  A deaf person would NOT be able to tune them with the gauges only.  A person with experience and sensitivity can tune them faster and better than anyone with only gauges.  It is natural to want a "magic" fix, but all of the gauges and level tubes filled with this and that, are a very poor way to do it.  Sorry, but you need to "know something" to do the job well.

12.  To adjust the cables to pick up at the same time is one way.  The error in that thinking is that the two engines (cylinders) won't rev up at the same horse power vs. rpm rate.  Then, at road speed they may be putting out different amounts of hp.  We call that "vibration."  Some vibration is normal and is due to the offset cylinders.

13.  Another way is to take the engine up to 3500, or so, rpm and short out one spark plug at a time and adjust the cables for equal rpm.  This won't produce equal HP (low vibration) at that rpm, but it will get you into the ballpark.  The reason is that the two cylinders usually produce a different amount of horse power at any one rpm.  The two sides aren't able to contribute equally to the work.    Note, I really don't approve of that method of balancing the carbs.

14.  The choice is easy for the touring rider.  One will find that a narrow range of rpm will be normally used on the road.  At this rpm, adjust the throttle cables for minimum vibration.  Just know and accept that it
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 05:07:35 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

clonmore1

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2016, 03:42:19 PM »
What wise advice Barry!


Offline skippyc

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 03:33:49 AM »
A bit of heat and cold and a bit of thump and it is all back together. Now for some riding without the wobble.

Offline skippyc

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Shouldn't have sold them old bikes.
Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2016, 03:42:07 AM »
Hi Adrian your information has been of help. I got my bike from victor harbour SA.

Offline Adrian

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Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2016, 07:36:49 PM »
Hi Skippy. Glad it was useful for you. Any pics of your bike mate? I hope your finding time to ride. Now I have all the money I need ~ small unexpected inheritance ~ I can finally press on with rebuild :-)  Tidying up a friends garage/ shed as a workshop at the moment.
1984 R65 (860)

Offline skippyc

  • Lives in Foothills of Mt. Olympus
  • **
  • Posts: 356
  • Shouldn't have sold them old bikes.
Re: Outer Bearing Races
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2016, 04:19:57 AM »
Well the bearings made a difference the handling is much sharper than it was. Here's a photo for you Adrian