'82 R65LS Ignition Session

[Red_Hen]

Hi Everyone - want to share a long process of my attempt to solve an ignition issue.  Seems many of us with the electronic ignitions go through this sooner or later - riding along and the bike starts quitting and bucking like a bronco - leading up to this post, I'd installed a new Hall Sensor in one of the bean cans and did it again in another.  It's not the kind of work I'd want to do on a regular basis.  After overhauling the bean can, bike still was quitting so I replaced the ICU.  That solved the problem but created another one - the tach needle started jumping like crazy!


Matt Parkhouse lent me a Dyna blue and told me if it worked, to send him a check - I'd had a used Bosch dual tower coil and that was after replacing the OEM Grey Crack-o-matic.  After replacing the ICU, bike ran great but tach jumped and then when I towed my bike from MN to CA it was hard to start - it had been through weather that included snow and rain.  

I'd installed a Dyna Blue Coil and bike fired up right away so one problem solved but bike still was conking out BUT tach no longer jumping! Decided to stop farting around (been messing with the ignition off and on over the past 2-3 years) and ordered the Red Centre Gen 3 Bean can and ICU and a new ignition harness from John Olive / Rally Sport Ignition in Australia - should arrive this week.

In preparation for new ignition system, removed tank today and started going through all the wires - one thing I definitely noticed was when I put the bike back together say @5 years ago, I didn't know as much as I do now and had used a combination of Gorilla Black Duct tape and Electrical tape to wrap the harness - did that because the OEM sheath was deteriorating. Didn't like my "past work" and removed all the sticky gooey gorilla tape (don't ever get lazy like I did and use this crap!) Took a couple hours but I was alone and uninterrupted and found the work to be quite therapeutic. Removed wires that went into different harnesses/connectors on the frame and routed for minimal stress on the wires - really took my time and did a nice job working with the best loom tape I could find locally at a Pep Boys - 3M Black Friction Tape - worked like a dream!

One thing I definitely noticed was that the ground wires that attach behind the voltage regulator and are held on by one of the two allen bolts that holds on the VR was loose - not sure what would have caused the conking out but one never knows! The other thing I caught was corrosion where the Ignition module harness plugs into the other white plug that goes where? Forgetting now. Wiring harness, I think . . .

Then I removed the Ignition harness - the wires were stiff and not brittle but old and the connectors to the bean can are non OEM.

Will I have solved my problem? Not sure but getting closer and wiring harness sure is tidy and clean! Will keep you posted when I install new ignition - excited about this new product because of where the hall sensor is mounted - completely serviceable and should eliminate the need to carry a spare bean can and just a spare hall sensor.Hi Everyone - want to share a long process of my attempt to solve an ignition issue.  Seems many of us with the electronic ignitions go through this sooner or later - riding along and the bike starts quitting and bucking like a bronco - leading up to this post, I'd installed a new Hall Sensor in one of the bean cans and did it again in another.  It's not the kind of work I'd want to do on a regular basis.  After overhauling the bean can, bike still was quitting so I replaced the ICU.  That solved the problem but created another one - the tach needle started jumping like crazy!

In December, towed my bike from MN to CA  and then R65 was hard to start - it had been through weather that included snow and rain.  

I’d reached out to Matt Parkhouse asking him about the wisdom of buying a new $200 Bosch dual tower coil w/out being sure the coil was a problem - Matt graciously shipped me a Dyna blue and told me if it worked, to send him a check - I'd had a used Bosch dual tower coil and that was after replacing the OEM Grey Crack-o-matic.

After installing the Dyna Blue Coil, the bike fired up right away - one problem solved!
Unfortunately, she still was conking out BUT tach no longer jumped!

Decided to stop farting around (been messing with the ignition off and on over the past 2-3 years) and ordered the Red Centre Gen 3 Bean can and ICU and a new ignition harness from John Olive / Rally Sport Ignition in Australia - should arrive this week.

In preparation for new ignition system, removed tank today and started going through all the wires - one thing I definitely noticed was when I put the bike back together say @5 years ago, I didn't know as much as I do now and had used a combination of Gorilla Black Duct tape and Electrical tape to wrap the harness - did that because the OEM sheath was deteriorating. Didn't like my "past work" and removed all the sticky gooey gorilla tap

[Bob_Roller]

One thing I don't like about the DYNA coils, is how close one of the terminals is to the mounting bolt, I put an insulating material, tape on the nut and heat shrink on the terminal end to prevent  grounding out the ignition system .

One of your pictures shows how close it is .

I added an additional ground 10 gauge ' American wire gauge ' from that ground point on the voltage regulator, back to the battery negative terminal, I didn't like how the factory is relying on the path back to the battery from the frame, through the engine / transmission .

I added a non-OEM battery negative cable from the battery to the front side of the lower right engine to transmission bolt, to replace the OEM cable that goes to the transmission vent speedometer drive area .

Corrosion on the connector for the ICU, is not good, remove as much as you can .

Getting back to your original problem, the engine cutting out .

I had a similar issue about 20 years ago .

I was told to go through the wiring harness, looking for loose connections corrosion, etc . , I found a few pins in the connectors, where the lock that keeps the pin from backing out when the two halves of the connector were broke off, fixed that and no issues for a few years, then it started again and the ignition switch failed shortly afterwards, when you shook the switch when it off of the bike, you could hear parts rattling around inside the switch .

Occasional electrical issues are the hardest to trouble shoot, until they break and stay broke .

[georgesgiralt]

Hello !
The wiring harnesses are still available for these bikes.
The ignition harness with it's two AMP Junior connector is particularly useful because these connectors are waterproof and allow you to use OEM parts unmodified.
If I were you, I would buy the ignition harness new from BMW and a male AMP Junior connector and make the circuit as it was designed. Then if still having some problems, I'll try to debug them one at a time.
I have a source for the AMP Junior connectors, both 3 and 7 pin, which is cheap but it is in Europe (Germany) so you may want to shop more locally.
Hope this helps

[Red_Hen]

One thing I don't like about the DYNA coils, is how close one of the terminals is to the mounting bolt, I put an insulating material, tape on the nut and heat shrink on the terminal end to prevent  grounding out the ignition system .

One of your pictures shows how close it is .

I added an additional ground 10 gauge ' American wire gauge ' from that ground point on the voltage regulator, back to the battery negative terminal, I didn't like how the factory is relying on the path back to the battery from the frame, through the engine / transmission .

I added a non-OEM battery negative cable from the battery to the front side of the lower right engine to transmission bolt, to replace the OEM cable that goes to the transmission vent speedometer drive area .

Corrosion on the connector for the ICU, is not good, remove as much as you can .

Getting back to your original problem, the engine cutting out .

I had a similar issue about 20 years ago .

I was told to go through the wiring harness, looking for loose connections corrosion, etc . , I found a few pins in the connectors, where the lock that keeps the pin from backing out when the two halves of the connector were broke off, fixed that and no issues for a few years, then it started again and the ignition switch failed shortly afterwards, when you shook the switch when it off of the bike, you could hear parts rattling around inside the switch .

Occasional electrical issues are the hardest to trouble shoot, until they break and stay broke .

Bob - thanks for your comments - will do same to bolt & connector to avoid grounding out from connector to coil. Also like idea of running extra ground from coil bracket to neg terminal on battery.

What is a good way to get into the female side of the white connector that Ignition harness plugs into?  I have a sharp pick tool I used but still would like to do a better job.

Along with the new red centre bean can & ICU, also ordered a new electrical harness as OEM is definitely shot.  

Maybe don't need the new bean can and ICU but at this point, I just want to ride the bike and not get stuck on side of road again.  Here's a picture of the Red Centre bean can - note that Hall sensor mounts to back of the can - pretty smart design!  About the same cost as what you'd buy from the dealers in the states.

[Red_Hen]

Hello !
The wiring harnesses are still available for these bikes.
The ignition harness with it's two AMP Junior connector is particularly useful because these connectors are waterproof and allow you to use OEM parts unmodified.
If I were you, I would buy the ignition harness new from BMW and a male AMP Junior connector and make the circuit as it was designed. Then if still having some problems, I'll try to debug them one at a time.
I have a source for the AMP Junior connectors, both 3 and 7 pin, which is cheap but it is in Europe (Germany) so you may want to shop more locally.
Hope this helps

Thanks, George - ordered a new harness - if you can post picture of the AMP Junior connector, please do.  Thank You.

[georgesgiralt]

Better than a picture, the source of the device !
http://www.kabelschuhe-shop.de/Connecteurs/Connecteurs-AMP-JPT/AMP-JPT-Set-3-pin-05-10-mm-%B2::7983.html
As you will notice, there has been an improvement as the thin wire retainer has become an integral part of the connector and is much thicker than it was.
They also have the 7 pin elsewhere on the site.

[Red_Hen]

Thanks [ch128077]

[Bob_Roller]

I just remember seeing this on a site in the US .

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/IGN-Plug088set-p/ign-plug088set.htm

[mrclubike]

I not sure about using the 3M  tape you used to rewrap your harness with but here is the best thing to use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-BMW-Mercedes-Audi-VW-High-Heat-Wire-Loom-Harness-Tape-Tesa-/301876934212?hash=item4649447644:g:VkcAAOSwgQ9Vy96T&item=301876934212&vxp=mtr
This tape is made just for wraping looms. It does not have a thick sticky adhesive on it. So if you unwrap it. It will be clean and not all covered in glue
I know If you use the hardware  store type cloth electrical tape it will get all sticky and gooey like the other stuff you used did and be messy if you unwrap it

I am also curious why you used a Blue .7OHM coil
I thought we were supposed to use a Brown 1.5 OHM.


 

[Bob_Roller]

I don't know if this is the case here or not, but there is an upgraded ICU from BMW for the airhead bikes, called the ' heavy duty ' ICU .

It is recommended that the .7 ohm ' blue ' Dyna coil be used with it .

http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm

Scroll down a bit on the link and it states it there .

[Red_Hen]

I not sure about using the 3M  tape you used to rewrap your harness with but here is the best thing to use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-BMW-Mercedes-Audi-VW-High-Heat-Wire-Loom-Harness-Tape-Tesa-/301876934212?hash=item4649447644:g:VkcAAOSwgQ9Vy96T&item=301876934212&vxp=mtr
This tape is made just for wraping looms. It does not have a thick sticky adhesive on it. So if you unwrap it. It will be clean and not all covered in glue
I know If you use the hardware  store type cloth electrical tape it will get all sticky and gooey like the other stuff you used did and be messy if you unwrap it

I am also curious why you used a Blue .7OHM coil
I thought we were supposed to use a Brown 1.5 OHM.


 

The OEM Bosch Dual Coil coil is 0.6 ohms - Matt Parkhouse had a Dyna Blue to loan me and when I installed it, bike immediately started.  Dyna Blue is 0.7

One thing I am pretty sure about is when I installed the Black Bosch 0.6, (to replace my grey oem crack o magic) it fried my white letter OEM Ignition Control Module - I replaced that with a ICU from Euromotoelectric which seemed to solve the problem - for awhile.

3M makes good products - not wanting to wait to order the tape online, I got at the auto parts store what made the most sense - way better than the Gorilla black duct tape  

Not sure where weak links are here but am pretty sure it has to do with electrical connectors and a good chance the ICU harness due to its age and that the connectors had been modified.

Not sure where I'm going but goal is to have a reliable roadworthy BMW R65LS!

[Barry]

Only the very last of the airheads from 91 had very low resistance coils like 0.6 ohms and an ignition module with dwell control that could cope with it without overheating. Using that coil with an earlier module would risk frying it.  81 - 91 coils were 1.5 ohms.

If you have the latest ignition module then the difference between 0.6 or 0.7 ohms is immaterial.  

[Red_Hen]

Only the very last of the airheads from 91 had very low resistance coils like 0.6 ohms and an ignition module with dwell control that could cope with it without overheating. Using that coil with an earlier module would risk frying it.  81 - 91 coils were 1.5 ohms.

If you have the latest ignition module then the difference between 0.6 or 0.7 ohms is immaterial.  

Exactly correct Barry [ch128077]

[Tony Smith]

If you have the latest ignition module then the difference between 0.6 or 0.7 ohms is immaterial.  

Arrgh! just when I thought I had my knowledge sorted onthe topics of ignition fro my 1984 R65.

I had some dramas late last year which resulted in me buying an OEM coil, I am still reeling from the cost....

Compare and contrast the wife's R65/80 which was originally "points in a beancan". 25 years ago I replaced the points with a Boyer Bransden system. It is still working perfectly.

Almost 35 years ago I fitted a Boyer Bransden to my R100 - it is still working.

If the silly hall effect system plays up one more time, it is for the high-jump. Best of all Boyer now make a kit to directly replace a hall effect

[Barry]

The latest ignition module has both time limited dwell control and a maximum current limiter so in practice minor variations in primary resistance don't make any difference.  The nominal resistance changes anyway as the coil gets hot in use which would increase the resistance by as much as 10%.