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Author Topic: Front Brake problem solved (at last)  (Read 1116 times)

Offline Tony Smith

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Front Brake problem solved (at last)
« on: March 22, 2015, 09:59:18 PM »
Firstly, sorry no photos, but frankly they would not add to this at all.

When I first bought my R65 for some reason I pulled the master cylinder apart, cleaned it and packed it away in a plastic bag. I think I had a vague idea of re-sleeving it and using it in a handle bar brake conversion for the R100.

Anyway, when the r65 rebuild reached a point where it was stating to look ride-able I put it back together and threw it on the bike, along with the caliper that had been in a box for 20 yeas and the original brake lines.

Needless to say the brakes were horrid, In quick order I bought a m/c rebuild kit, replaced the brake line and rebuilt the caliper. Problem, by the time I was getting decent braking effect the blade of the brake lever was trapping my fingers - not good.

First I  thought air was the culprit and I wasted at least two bottles of brake fluid using 20 different ways to bleed the sucker, no change. Next I took the lever off and carried it in my pocket at lunch time till I spotted another airhead and  could compare the lever  - not bent.
 
Two weeks ago i was about to press the button to buy a new master cylinder (on the theory that it was the only thing i had not changed and was therefore the problem) when my reluctance to spend money came to the fore. I went downstairs to check a vague memory and sure enough the wife's R65 had a different "cranked" brake lever.

Quick as a flash I pulled it off her bike and fitted it to mine and instantly I had perfect brakes. I did briefly try and fit my lever to her bike, but it didn't fit. So, checking with motobins I found that the cranked lever is the correct one for round m/c (I have a square one) and that the curved blade I had was the correct one for my m/c.

I ordered a cranked lever and it arrived last week. I fitted it before heading off on a 150mile ride on Sunday and for the first time I now have a confidence inspiring front brake.

Take home message, if you cannot get decent brake pressure without bringing the lever too close to the bar and you are sure you have no air in the system or fluid lines about to burst - fit the old model brake lever.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline marcmax

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Re: Front Brake problem solved (at last)
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 06:52:30 AM »
Gasp! Horror! What will the purists think.   ;D
Keep your bike in good repair: motorcycle boots are not comfortable for walking.

1982 R65ls    1984 R65ls

Offline Tony Smith

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
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  • Posts: 2331
  • Graduate, Wallace and Gromit School of Engineering
Re: Front Brake problem solved (at last)
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 07:16:31 PM »
Quote
Gasp! Horror! What will the purists think.   ;D

I am still trying to see why it is so. At this stage I am wondering if there was ever a little "cap" that was fitted by the factory to the piston rods of master cylinders that had just a little too much free travel - 1mm of additional travel on the piston equates to quite significant amount of lever movement.
 
The other possibility is that in theory (according to the ever helpful guys at Motobins), the cranked lever should not fit my throttle assembly and my blade lever should not be able to be fitted to the older "round" m/c throttle assembly on my wife's bike.

I have verified that the later blade lever will not fit the 1979 R65, but I can fit either lever to my bike. Using a torch and eyeball I've had a look inside my assembly and it does look like someone has had a dremel (or similar) in there.

My working hypothesis is that sometime in the past my 1984 R65 needed a new handlebar throttle assembly and that one for an older model was sourced and then modified so that the existing blade type lever would work in it. My MPO (moronic previous owner for those that came in late) then just accepted having cr@p brakes, or alternatively, didn't know any better.

Either way, I now have a good front brake, I don't need to buy a new master cylinder and in any event I am about to fit two 4 pot calipers and will be re-sleeving an old "round" master cylinder to 17mm in honour of the twin 4-spots.

Last comment on the topic of fitting the later 4 piston calipers. Anyone who has ever looked will realize that whilst the bolting is identical to the older F08s (and earlier ATE Brembo copies) that unfortunately the centering over the disc is not.
 
The "traditional" way to fix this is to mill between 2.5 and 4mm from the bolt pads to correct the centering. I am confident that removing that much metal will not in any way compromise strength, but I am not entirely happy with the concept as it moves the parts into the realms of "one-off" I would prefer to leave the components in standard condition.
 
To that end I am designing adaptor plates that will bolt to the forklegs and which have a second plate welded to them, by milling the plates appropriately (guess who is in the process of buying a mill) I will be able to center the calipers over the discs without removing metal from the fork legs or calipers. This process will mean that the calipers will be a little further towards the outer edge of the disc but I do not see a problem with this.

As soon as I have the plates made I will provide photos and dimensions in case anyone wants to replicate them.

1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |