Starting issues

[jamestnewsonr65]

After leaving my bike for a while over the autumn/winter it seems to have developed the ability to not start.

I'm not too good with the electrical side of things, but everything worked when I was using the bike towards the end of the last summer.  I have charged the battery twice in the last week and it just dies before starting. This is one obvious problem which needs changing.

Does anyone have any recommendations on battery types/preffered makes which have proved good in the past? The one in there at the moment is the wet type made in Korea or somewhere. It was the one installed in the bike when I bought it last April so don't know the history of it.

I also suspect that the coil may be on the way out as it has a large crack from end to end and with the wetter weather here in the UK I think this might be time to replace it. Again any suggestions / advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

When trying to start the bike the other day with the front cover off I noticed that there is a strong clicking noise (almost like a contact arcing) coming from the front when I switch the bike to the on position on the handlebar. Last time I ran the bike which was a dry day in oct it ran for a while then tried to start it again and the clicking noise was there which I think may have something to do with it now not running.

As I mentioned I'm not too good with the electrical side of things so any ideas or suggestions are welcome.

The forum has helped me so much in the past and really appreciate any help i've had.

[Bob_Roller]

I think you have found your problem, the original OEM black and gray coil is notorious for the situation you have .
Don't know what's available you in your part of the world for replacement coils .
There is a second generation OEM coil from BMW, it's red and black, I installed one when my black and gray coil failed in 1994, but the new coil didn't last 10 years in my instance .
I then got a DYNA coil, just about a bulletproof part .

[nhmaf]

1st.  If your coil has a large crack in it - it MUST be replaced.  There are a number of coils that can work.   In the US many of us love the Dyna coils from Motorrad Elektrik, but shipping and duty into London may make it pricier than you care to deal with.   It is a very good product, and smaller lighter than the original.   If you get it, get one with the bracket kit to simplify mounting.    Replace this and then see what happens.  If symptoms don't change at all->
2.  Your battery is kaput.   Order a new one - if you are not going to treat it nicely by keeping it on a tender at all times when the bike is put up for more than a week or two at a go, then you may as well not spend alot of $$ on a high end battery like the Odyssey.  There are a number of ones that work OK, and there are Gruber brand batteries here in the US that are quite economical (but again, shipping across the pond may make a local option to you a better choice).   If you DO decide you want to spring for a nice AGM battery, lately I've become quite a fan of Motobatt batteries.  I've got one on my Kawasaki Concours now, and it really cranks well.  These AGM/gel batteries do require that you use the proper battery tender with them consistently, but they do last 5+ years in my experience.
http://www.motorcycleproducts.co.uk/battery-bmw-r65-ls-1981-1982-1983-motobatt-p-340484.html

The click-clik-clik-clicking you heard/hear is most likely the starter relay chattering - if you battery cannot put out enough current, the voltage drops, which causes the relay to shut off... This then allows the battery voltage to rise, and the relay clicks closed again, and the increased current draw exceeds what the bad battery can put again , and the voltage drops - cycle repeats over&over.   It is a sure sign of a discharged battery or bad battery cable connection.   If you've charged the battery for a couple days and it still does this, check to make sure your battery cables are not corroded and properly connected.  If they are - time to order up a new battery!

[mrclubike]

Read this thread
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1421793910
We talk about the coils

My Odyssey battery sat for 4 weeks in below freezing temps without a tender and she started just fine last Saturday
I thought that one of the benefits of an  AGM battery was you don't need a tender  for a month or 2 down time

It is normal for the coils to spark when you turn the key off so you may be hearing the spark leaking from the coil  

[Barry]

An newish AGM should retain over 90% of it's charge for a month or 2 and so still start the bike.  My current battery is a hybrid AGM/Gel and it's a revelation at keeping it's charge compared to a wet cell. I don't have a permanently connected up battery tender and am not a fan of using them unless you are sure it's supplying a safe voltage for that particular battery. If it is then fine but it's easy to do more harm than good especially at higher temperatures unless the tender has built in temperature compensation.  I prefer to check the voltage occasionally and charge the battery when needed.

[thrang]

The coil needs replacing, if you phone Motobinns in Lincs they give you the sp on a good quality replacement, and can likely sell you a gel battery as well.

If coin is a bit tight just after Christmas then Motorworks in Huddersfield will do you a second hand replacement coil at a very reasonable price.

It also sounds like your battery is shot, although it could be just the weather, there is also a change that the weather just finished it off. So its probably worth while checking the output voltage of your charging system. its easy just pop a test (multimeter) meter on volts across the battery when you have the bike running at about 2,500 to 3000 rpm anything between 12 & 14 volts (ish)  reading is good anything above or bellow and you have a charging circuit problem.

It would also be a good idea if your coil has gone to check your HT leads, caps and plugs, just incase.

Hope this helps
Tony

[jamestnewsonr65]

Thanks for the replies. I will get on to motobins and see about getting a replacement coil for the bike. Shame the Dyno coils are available over here as I like the look of that.

I think the battery is probably dead as even after charging it dies fairly quickly. Leads, Caps and Plugs were all changed as part of the refurb so they should be fine.

Will let you know how I get on.

[Barry]

You can get them in the UK but I suspect they will be more expensive than in the US.  I seem to recall they also want to sell them in pairs at something like £130.

http://www.dynatekuk.com/accessories_dyna_coils.html

There are other options. Any dual output coil with approximately 1.5 ohms primary resistance should be OK.  Suitable possibilities might be Yamaha XS650, Honda gold wing or Harley Davidson coils.

For example this one http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/HT75.html or this one  http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/HT90.html would work even though the resistance is a little higher.

[jamestnewsonr65]

Thanks for that info Barry and to everyone else.

[montmil]

James,   Scroll down 4-5 topics here in the Tech Q&A to "Bike Died". More info on your coil issue.

[Tony Smith]

. Any dual output coil with approximately 1.5 ohms primary resistance should be OK.  Suitable possibilities might be Yamaha XS650, Honda gold wing or Harley Davidson coils.

Can i put my plug in for Mercury outboard coils. The beauty of outboard coils is that you can take to the bank that issues of water and corrosion resistance have been well addressed. The big thing was (that at least in Australia) they are surprisingly cheap.

[iwSVPyFzWDH]

I have had a Panasonic LC-X1220P in my '79 R65 for several years. It stuffs into the battery holder, no need for tie downs and no acid on the paintwork. An excellent AGM battery with plenty of reserve.

[Runninn1]

Logical question...what's the voltage reading on the battery?
Esp after you try to start it once or twice.
Does it quickly fall under 12.2 volts?

[iwSVPyFzWDH]

This Panasonic battery was installed circa late 2007 to early 2008...

Ambient air temperature:  73F  -  23C

Bike equipped with Valeo starter motor.

Battery at rest for five days since previous 25 mile ride: 12.65 Volts resting voltage.

Normal start from cold, run for two minutes, stop engine: 12.54 Volts

Remove plug wires, crank for 10 seconds: 12.45 Volts

Wait a minute,

Plug wires still off, crank for 15 seconds: 12.39 Volts

Wait five minutes, battery recovers to 12.55 Volts

Plug wires off, crank 15 seconds: 12.39 Volts

Wait five minutes, battery recovers to 12.51 Volts

Replace plug wires, bike starts immediately, run one minute, stop engine.

Wait five minutes, battery recovers to 12.52 Volts

End of test-

[montmil]

After reading your latest post, there's something you may wish to consider.

You stated:

"Remove plug wires, crank for 10 seconds: 12.45 Volts
 Wait a minute,
 Plug wires still off, crank for 15 seconds: 12.39 Volts"

There is a distinct possibility that ignition system components can be seriously damaged and/or ruined if the ignition is on and the starter is engaged while the spark plug caps are removed and left ungrounded.

Best procedure is to remove the spark plug leads, the spark plugs, reattach the spark plugs to the leads and ground the plugs to the cylinder using a clamping system that will insure positive contact and grounding.