Smaller batteries to kick over a larger motor

[steve hawkins]

Okay,

So I have my R100 left, the R65 having gone next door, now sitting ready to be wired up and fired up after its refresh.

Looking at what to do with the R100, my attention is drawn towards the huge battery and tray area.  The current battery is of the standard size for the model, but has only just enough power to turn the R100 over.  I need to top it up and get some regular mileage on it.  Its also an absolute arse to remove and refit.

I am mulling over the possibility of looking for something smaller, but it needs to be powerful enough, reliable enough and not break the bank.  I might mount it higher but just under the seat.

I never changed the battery installation on the R65, as it was not as large as the R80/100 models and I have always felt that it is a good, secure installation.  And when I had it painted along with the frame it looked fine, partially obscured behind the frame tubes leaving enough 'free space' behind the engine for that 'open look'.

I am just chewing things over at the moment, but if anyone has any bright ideas, then I am 'all ears'.

Cheers

Rev. Light

[Luca]

AGM batteries tend to be a bit smaller than their flooded counterparts, and they also provide a few more cold cranking amps and discharge more slowly.  I've had a Scorpion AGM battery on my bike for about a year and a half and it's never seen a charger.  Currently at 12.55 volts.  To boot, you can mount them in any orientation without worrying about an acid spill, which is how some of the cafe guys lean the battery over and put it under the seat cowl.

I know Monte has posted links to a non-automotive (read: half the price) battery supplier that he uses for his bikes.  Maybe you can find a supplier over there.  They might be marketed as UPS (uninterruptable power supply) batteries.  All you're really looking for is 12V, enough amp hours (I think the big bikes call for around 30), and a left-hand negative post.  From there on out it's just a matter of comparing dimensions.

Lithium batteries are expensive, not well proven, and supposedly not very good at discharging while cold.  They are as small as you can get though.

[Barry]

I'm just about to replace my 12 year old Varta wet cell with one of these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultramax-12V-18Ah-For-UPS-Jump-Starter-etc-NP17-12-NP18-12-NP20-12-NP22-12-/130661449553?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item1e6c077f51

Ultramax also make larger batteries and their web site has detail spec sheets in pdf format.
http://www.ultramaxbatteries.com/ProductDocs/SLAUMXNP20-12-TECH.pdf

They may not be marketed as normal starter batteries but with 9 mOhm internal resistance they should easily cope. Note the charge voltage of 14.4 to 14.7 volts.  My volatge regulator is set up at 14.3 -14.4 so I'm near enough.  A normal voltage regulator set at 14 volts or less will not easily keep the battery fully charged.

[larstorders]

How about a lithium iron phosphate battery. Becoming popular now. The ones offered for the GS1200 have 21AH and weigh only about 3 lbs.

[Bob_Roller]

There was a lenghty discussion about lithium batteries on a Guzzi forum I belong to .

When the temperature got below 55 F, 13 C, the batteries would go to ' sleep ' and not provide enough power to operate the starter .

These were Shorai batteries one of the top brands being sold .

Lithiun batteries will most likely be the next jump in technology for batteries, but they have some issues at this point in time .

And they are costly !!!!!

At least here in North America, you can get a 22 ah AGM type battery in the size that fits into the battery tray of an R65 .

http://www.staabbattery.com/product/UB12220-V.html

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this battery is probably available elsewhere on planet earth .

I don't know how much presence Radio Shack has in the UK, if any, but this battery is available from them as well .

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11909407

[Justin B.]

On my R100 I put in an R65 battery tray and one of the AGM batteries from Staab.

[georgesgiralt]

Humm I will refrain putting "new technology" batteries on my bike 'til they've proved that I do not risk fire or that I will be able to start the engine at work in the frisky evening ....
Remember the Boeing or Airbus planes having their lithium battery frying up and setting fire in the battery bay ? Do you remember what is quite above the battery tray on an R65  

[Barry]

Remember the Boeing or Airbus planes having their lithium battery frying up and setting fire in the battery bay ? Do you remember what is quite above the battery tray on an R65

Apparently there are different types of lithium ion chemistry and the wrong type was used on the plane which was pretty dumb for a corporation of that size. Even dumber was the time it took them to figure that out. The bike batteries are not the same as the ones that caught fire. As Bob said though the real problem with Li ion is the cold temperature performance.  There is a guy on ADV rider that really knows his stuff on batteries and was a pioneer on building and testing Li ion batteries. He suggests AGM for most people as Li ion are just too fussy.

I'd go with Justin's suggestion. If a 19 or 20 AH AGM battery won't do the job then maybe a geared starters is needed.  Is there any other bike regardless of size that needs a 30AH battery that would start a car with no trouble ?

[Bob_Roller]

I have also heard that the Lithium chemistry batteries are ' fussy ' about how they are charged, a motorcycle charging system is hardly a highly stable charging source for a battery that's  ' finicky ' on how it's treated .

[Armen]

First step is to trash the stock starter and use either a later Valeo, Enduralast, or Nippon dDenso. Have done this to a few bikes and used either the 18AH sealed battery or a Lithium Battery. No problems. More than 20 lb weight savings :-0
-Armen

[montmil]

  A new NipponDenso starter and a Lithium battery. Dat's a lotta greenbacks for a potentially small return on investment.

[Armen]

Small return? In the NYC metro area, getting stuck in traffic is a fact of life. As is cold weather. Quite a few of my friends and customers end up with bikes that won't start or have a battery die on a regular basis.
Done the Enduralast alternator/better starter/better (and smaller) battery on both my airheads and a few customer bikes.
The stock stuff might be ok if you promise to livein  a warm area and never get stuck in traffic, but around here they are sucktacular.  

[montmil]

... Quite a few of my friends and customers end up with bikes that won't start or have a battery die on a regular basis. 

Ah. Didn't realize you're in the business of selling these things.  

[Armen]

Actually, I let the folks get the parts. I just make suggestions so that they have bikes that work as well as possible.

[montmil]

Uh Huh.