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Author Topic: New electrics  (Read 3331 times)

Offline decorn33

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New electrics
« on: September 24, 2013, 06:20:57 PM »
I bit the bullet and invested in a new alternator and new Alpha electronic ignition from Rick at Motorrad Electrik.  The installation went OK, the printed directions were pretty easy to follow. The bike starts and runs, I set the idle timing and made sure the carbs were balanced.  Two questions arose however that my inexperience cannot resolve: First, I have the timing set so the S is in the window when idling at about 1100 rpm. The instructions call for the F or Z to show up when advanced to 3400 rpm. I see the Z at 2500 rpm and nothing at 3400. Is my idle too fast? I read that it shouldn't go below 900 to keep oil pressure up, and that 1000 to 1300 was a target zone.  Second, I noticed due to the fact that the front wheel and fender are off, that my front forks looked out of alignment, (not square to the axle). I put a straightedge against the bottoms and sure enough, about 5mm difference between right and left. I checked at the tops in the upper triple clamp and they are equal. How could one be longer than the other? I have never had them off the bike since I've had it, but I confess replacing the rear axle is a whole lot easier than the front axle.
1984 R65

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 06:29:55 PM »
My prime suspect would be your fork brace. Let go the tension of that, ease the right leg down so that it matches the left and re-tension the brace.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 06:35:02 PM »
There is a rubber washer in each fork tube to cushion the internal parts if the fork extends all the way, a wild guess is that one of them has detiorated and will show up as black goo when you drain the fork oil in that fork .

The rubber washer is around 5mm thick, from the best I can remember .

Again, just a guess, other than that, you'll have to disassemble the forks and see which one is wrong .
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 06:36:13 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline decorn33

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 10:25:23 PM »
Thanks, I'll do some exploring and see what I find.
1984 R65

Offline nhmaf

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 10:40:27 PM »
Make sure to strap down the bike when it is up on the lift like that - it is a pain, but they can get kinda tippy like that and we'd hate to hear about it falling off/tipping over while you were pulling on the fork stanchions!

I'd first try the fork brace thing mentioned by Tony - it is the simplest/quickest thing to do.   If that doesn't prove fruitful, I would try taking the top caps & plugs out of the fork tubes (will have to remove handlebars from top clamp too - just got a bunch of big, soft rags to put over the fuel tank to rest the bars on) and, once done, reach down and see if you've got the same length fork springs and any preload spacers down in there.   This isn't so likely to be the problem, but again, it is quicker and easier to do than the full forks disassembly.   If that also proves fruitless, it is likely that the rubber damper buffer has disintegrated on one side (And the other will eventually follow - they have a half life of about 15-20 years, I think).

I started to write up a procedure for replacing & rebuilding the fork damper assembly, but haven't finished it yet.   Basically you can look at this thread though - what could be the problem is that the (now red-colored, originally black or creme) damper assemby bumper/topping out bushing has disintegrated (see the pics for the red donut-thingie)...
Does my damper rod assembly look odd to you thread:
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1371526053
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline decorn33

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 12:54:58 PM »
After double checking my timing and carb settings for the 3rd time and having the same starting symptoms show up again after a short ride, I called Rick at Motorrad and he recommended a new coil which is now on its way. The old Bosch coil wasn't that old, but according to Rick, the symptoms were conclusive to him, so one problem solved.

I also ordered maintenance parts for the forks and they are coming off this week to be rebuilt.  Sorry to miss all this gorgeous riding weather, but I see light at the end of the tunnel.
1984 R65

Offline montmil

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 01:33:53 PM »
Quote
The old Bosch coil...

...commonly known as the Crack-O-Matic.

When you pull the old coil, wipe it down really well and inspect it for tiny cracks. Usually found on the ends in a circular pattern but sometimes along the body.

This is the Bosch off my 1981 R65. See 'em?



While you're waiting on UPS, pick up a small tube of Heat Sink Paste at RadioShack. Remove the Ignition Control Unit (ICU) and clean off any old, dried paste and apply enough fresh to get a slight squeeze out all around. Sounds unimportant but several ignition failures far from home are traced to a heat-related issue due to faulty or missing heat paste.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 01:47:29 PM by montmil »
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Barry

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 01:45:16 PM »
The topping out Bush that bob mentioned is 7.5mm thick. I'd say that's almost certainly the reason for your forks being a different length.

They are not always this colour but this is what they look like.

Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 02:23:51 PM »
Do you have a multimeter ??

If you do, check the primary and secondary circuits of the ignition coil .

I had a hard cold starting problem that didn't show up until the temperature got to 55 F, 13 C .

The primary circuit had .7 ohms, supposed to be 1.5 ohms .

The secondary circuits should be around 11-13 K ohms .
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 02:41:21 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline decorn33

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 11:03:31 AM »
I pulled the tank again and disconnected the existing coil in anticipation of the new one showing up from Rick any day now.  My coil doesn't look like the one in Monte's photo, but I guess that is just a difference between '81 and '84. It isn't the original coil as I remember replacing it some years ago. It looks OK, but I am still anxious to install Rick's Dynacoil and get back on the road.
1984 R65

Offline decorn33

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 05:31:39 PM »
I haven't posted on this issue in a while, basically because I am kinda frustrated at this point.  I have new stator/rotor, new Alpha ignition, new voltage regulator, new Dynacoil, new battery, new sparkplugs and wires, and I can't go more than a mile or two before the bike quits on me.  Total loss of power, just backfiring/stalling when I twist the throttle - but it will idle beautifully all day long at 1100 rpm. Rick Jones even sent me a replacement ignition because we thought it might have something to do with the ignition advance. It didn't help. The bike will start right up when cold and will accelerate and sounds fine. I can ride it around the block - until it gets up to operating temperature - then trouble. It will always start up after stalling, and it will idle just fine, it just won't accelerate. Not even a little bit. I'm stumped. Any ideas?
1984 R65

AlfromNH

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 07:08:26 PM »
Maybe it's not electrical? Plugged fuel filter, gas tank not venting?

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 07:55:29 PM »
Have you done anything to the carbs yet ???

My first guess, would be a torn carb diaphragm .

A quick check, remove the carb dome tops and look a the rubber diaphragms .

I had a 1/4 inch tear in one of mine and the bike had a real hard time accelerating .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Luca

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 10:40:51 PM »
It seems like a fuel problem, unless you have faulty new ignition components.  You should check for a good spark, however, immediately when the bike starts to die on you--carry a spark plug in your pocket and check for spark on the side of the street.  You should also make sure to keep your battery charged while you sort this out.  It will be draining at idle, and eventually a low battery could cause you some trouble too.

Also, try reading a plug to help you decide if you've got too much or too little fuel.  Clean the plugs before you head out on a test run, and when it sputters, pull em both and see if they look lean (white) or rich (black)

While it does sound like a bad diaphragm, I find it odd that it would rev up when cold but then start to die when warm.

If you went through the carbs right before this problem started, I would make sure that the enrichener discs are not backwards  If they are, the bike will run way too rich when up to temp.

AfromNH's suggestion is a good one.  Check the fuel flow at each carburetor by removing the bowl and opening up the fuel tap.  There is a specified fuel amount that should flow out of each carb.  You can probably find it on this website or Snowbum's  I can't recall if the carb vents through the small brass standpipe or elsewhere, but you need to make sure that the carbs and the tank are venting.  While you are checking for spark on the side of the road, you could also pop off the carb bowls and check their levels.  Make yourself a dipstick to keep things quick and easy.
'82 R65LS
'01 K1200RS

Offline decorn33

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Re: New electrics
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 10:05:34 AM »
Thank you guys.
I am pretty convinced at this point that my problems are not involving the ignition system. That was my immediate reaction as the symptoms arose the first night I put in the new components. The bike had been running awhile on the stand, cooled by a fan when it first started acting up.

I have subsequently rebalanced the carbs using the shorting method and with my Harmonizer, and I have checked the timing. Both aspects seem to be proper. As I mentioned, Rick Jones also sent me a second ignition module to test, and the bike acted the same way with that one installed.

I recently replaced both of the diaphrams so they should be fine. I will pop the covers off to confirm that they are seated properly, but I am pretty sure I set them correctly the first time. I will also remove the bowls and check the fuel flow in each carb. I have replacement floats in stock if I need them. Maybe it's time to rebuild both carbs?

I do have an after market in line fuel filter set between the petcock and the "T". I am going to take that out, AND pull the petcock to see if I have any clogging.

I will need to research the venting for the gas tank and the carbs so I know what I am looking for. With the holiday weekend coming up I will have time to devote to investigations. Wish the garage was heated, but hey, I have a garage!
1984 R65