Sidecar fitting.

[Flatty]

Has anyone here fitted a sidecar to a 1979 R65?   If so, I would love to see any pics of how you mounted it.   I understand that because the frame is rather light, a subframe is usually fitted to stiffen up everything.    In fact any info pertaining to the fitting of a sidecar to this bike would be appreciated.

I found the bike at a deceased estate and it had stood for over 30 years under cover.   A bit of work and cleaning up, new tyres, etc and it looks in mint condition with less than 4000 miles on it.

Thanks in anticipation,

Colin.

[montmil]

Our resident R65 sidecar man goes by "Scotty in Texas". Check the Member List and drop him a PM. His R65 has been sold and he now rides an R90 rig.

[nhmaf]

Yes, he has sold it, but it was quite likely the most beautiful rig I've seen pictures of, and he spent alot of effort on getting it right.   I'm sure he could give you some good advice.

I've got a subframe mount kit from Dauntless Motors (www.dmcsidecars.com) here in the US - I'm using it to fit a Sputnik to my 78 R100/7.
It may be cost prohibitive for you to buy one and ship it over to you and pay import VAT on it, but their main technical/support guy there, Jay, is very helpful and experienced.

[nhmaf]

As a follow-up - the DMC sidecar subframe kit basically provides a VERY stout bar to which the lower sidecar mounting links are connected, which gives you alot more flexibility in mounting point locations of the lower links.  The subframe also brings a croass arm under the frame to pickup the engine mounting lugs on BOTH sides of the frame to stiffen things up and apply the side forces from the sidecar to both sides of the frame - less likely to twist/tweak the frame that way.   The R65 frame already has a cross member between the front downtubes below the headstock, but at least one of the DMC kits also provides a very robust part there also.   The DMC kit also has a vertically attached part which provides a much stronger mounting point - with more positions available for the rear upper mounting link.   I'll have to lookk through my kit to see if it also has a ross member to strengthen the rear of the main bike frame across the area near the battery box holder - it might not be necessary with the kit, but I do know that some folks do it anyway.   The end result will be a much stronger and stiffer platform than on your Royal Enfield and you'll have 4 solid links between bike and car with the ability to position them to best mechanical advantage.

[Flatty]

As a follow-up - the DMC sidecar subframe kit basically provides a VERY stout bar to which the lower sidecar mounting links are connected, which gives you alot more flexibility in mounting point locations of the lower links.  The subframe also brings a croass arm under the frame to pickup the engine mounting lugs on BOTH sides of the frame to stiffen things up and apply the side forces from the sidecar to both sides of the frame - less likely to twist/tweak the frame that way.   The R65 frame already has a cross member between the front downtubes below the headstock, but at least one of the DMC kits also provides a very robust part there also.   The DMC kit also has a vertically attached part which provides a much stronger mounting point - with more positions available for the rear upper mounting link.   I'll have to lookk through my kit to see if it also has a ross member to strengthen the rear of the main bike frame across the area near the battery box holder - it might not be necessary with the kit, but I do know that some folks do it anyway.   The end result will be a much stronger and stiffer platform than on your Royal Enfield and you'll have 4 solid links between bike and car with the ability to position them to best mechanical advantage.

Thanks for all your help so far but getting hold of a DMC kit would be a very difficult and expensive operation when you realise the distances involved.   I have been crawling around under the bike and checked out the points you mention.  I see what you mean and if I design something myself, then I will make sure that those points will be utilized for ultimate stiffness.
If you have any pics taken that will show what you are talking about, then they will be greatly appreciated as well.     As before, many thanks for what you have done so far and greatly appreciated.   Colin.

[nhmaf]

I'll take some pics and send to you of my kit - it is designed for the slightly different dimension /7 frame of course, but it will give you some good ideas, especially if you are a skilled welder or have access to one.  Probably will take a few days, though..

[Flatty]

I'll take some pics and send to you of my kit - it is designed for the slightly different dimension /7 frame of course, but it will give you some good ideas, especially if you are a skilled welder or have access to one.  Probably will take a few days, though..

Thanks, I will see what they look like and if you like you can use my email shown on my profile.       I hope to tackle this project when next my wife goes away to visit her mom for a week or so.  That way I can wreak havoc in my garage without having to clean up the mess every few hours.  So long as all the dust and dirt and bits of scrap are out the way when she comes home, then all is well ha ha.    Looking forward to seeing the pics,

Colin.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

These are pictures of Scotty's former rig.
Besides the mounts, it had(has) modified triple clamps to steepen the rake to make it easier to steer.

[montmil]

Scotty shared with me that he sold the R65 rig due to frustrations with fracture/breaks in the chair chassis. His main reason he went to the R90 rig we viewed at Perry's in Fort Worth.

Scotty had trailered the R65 combo from Marble Falls to FTW. He towed an empty trailer back home.

[Flatty]

Scotty shared with me that he sold the R65 rig due to frustrations with fracture/breaks in the chair chassis. His main reason he went to the R90 rig we viewed at Perry's in Fort Worth.

Scotty had trailered the R65 combo from Marble Falls to FTW. He towed an empty trailer back home.

Thank you Rob and Monte for your pics and advise.   The pics show what I would have expected of the fittings but I do notice that the rear fitting is attached to the top of the rear shock.   I would have thought that the frame of the R65 at that point would have been a bit flimsy.    Also noted on Scotty selling his rig due to fracture breaks in the chair chassis.  At least that was not the bike frame itself.  
I am busy looking at all options and before I make a move, I will really go into making sure that the final design will not fail me.  
I like the idea of the triple tree rake increase and wonder how much they cost?   I don't think that they are available in this country so that would be a major expense on my part to import them.

Whatever, I am truly grateful for all the concern and assistance shown on this forum and I am sure that one day soon, I will be fitting the chair to the R65 and giving my old Royal Enfield a deserved rest.

Thank you all,

Colin.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

These are the "proper" sidecar attachment points on a "proper" sidecar-hauling frame.



Note that the rear-most points are part of the main frame on the /2, as opposed to the bolted-on sub-frame of the post-1969 airheads.

The Earles fork (or any leading-link fork) is the best way to go for a front end.  Unit, a company in the UK makes aftermarket forks for a lot of money...
An Earls fork from a pre-1970 will fit on a later BMW frame, but the best thing to do is find a early bike with a blown-up engine and put a 1000cc Nikasil engine in it.

[nhmaf]

At once time I was looking at the Cozy line of sidecars (India-based company) which I *think* Scotty's was.   They have, unfortunately, a reputation for weak frames and many people try to reinforce them, but often give up at some point.   Too bad, as they are nice-looking items, especially if you don't want a large sidecar.   But, perhaps they are better matched with a smaller, lighter bike or scooter.

The upper rear shock mounting point isn't perfect, and but one has to make some compromises in order to achieve decent triangulation of the bike-to-car- linkages.   This is also why some folks weld in or bolt on an additional stout bar across the top of the battery area on the subframe - which can require the jettison of the toolbox for clearance.

I'll take some pics for you of my DMC kit pieces today - I've gotta do some cleaning in the garage and I'm between work projects at the moment..

[Flatty]

At once time I was looking at the Cozy line of sidecars (India-based company) which I *think* Scotty's was.   They have, unfortunately, a reputation for weak frames and many people try to reinforce them, but often give up at some point.   Too bad, as they are nice-looking items, especially if you don't want a large sidecar.   But, perhaps they are better matched with a smaller, lighter bike or scooter.

The upper rear shock mounting point isn't perfect, and but one has to make some compromises in order to achieve decent triangulation of the bike-to-car- linkages.   This is also why some folks weld in or bolt on an additional stout bar across the top of the battery area on the subframe - which can require the jettison of the toolbox for clearance.

I'll take some pics for you of my DMC kit pieces today - I've gotta do some cleaning in the garage and I'm between work projects at the moment..

Thanks again for all the info and great pics.  Reminds me of the 3 BMW R50's that I owned over the years from 59 to 62 (see pic)  I also looked at the spot near the battery and yes, I can see that some parts will have to move out the way but I agree that its the way to go.  It will be some time before I make this move to the R65 as I want to make sure that once I start this project, I will finish it and not go back.   Colin.

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

While looking for some [good] pictures of subframe bracing, I ran across Snowbum's page on sidecars (he is a big fan).
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/RigSale.htm

This picture shows his clever and very custom two-brake pedal system:

When the normal rear brake pedal is used, it acts normally on the tug; and, it puts SOME, but not too much, pressure on the sidecar brake.  If you use your foot on JUST the sidecar brake, you can get as much brake on just the sidecar as you would want...and then some.   It is possible to use one's boot on both pedals at the same time.   This system is VERY simple, VERY effective, VERY reliable.  It was done this way on purpose...I wanted it SIMPLE, EASY to maintain, and I wanted a separate sidecar brake pedal, for slow and very sharp right slow turns.  I wanted the brakes to allow panic stopping in a relatively straight line.

He has some pictures and descriptions of bracing, but not the ones I am thinking of.  I will have to wait until I get home and see if they are on my PC.

[Flatty]

Thanks again Rod,
                           I looked at Snobums page and it is very helpful.  Especially the part where a cross brace is fitted above the battery.  in fact I was grovelling under and over the bike this very morning trying to "visualize" where I was going to fit brackets, clamps, etc and the battery area was part of that inspection.     What I have also done was to write to the makers of the Unit leading ling forks in the UK for price and availability.  I must say that I was glad that I was sitting down when the reply came.     Looks like I am going to have to hock something here to pay for that modification...

Once more, thank you for all the help.  At this stage I am trying to collect all the bits and pieces of steel, bolts, tools, etc before actually starting work.  Living out in the sticks about 100 miles from any town worth noting, makes it hard to just walk down to your local shop (?) and pick up what is needed.    
Once I have all the materials gathered, I will take a deep breath, remove the chair from my trusty Royal Enfield and commit myself to not going back until the R65 is tugging it along.

kind regards,  Colin.