Boyer ignition in a 1978 to 1980?

[quixotic]

Just wondering if anyone else has accomplished this.  I tried, but there were fitment issues:

1) had to bend back the spring posts to make room for the rotor plate
2) had to grind about 1/2 mm off the stator plate pins so the rotor elements wouldn't bang into them
3) had to remove the zip tie and the surrounding epoxy from the stator plate wires in order to get the plate down into the bean can and the wire out through the bean can hole

Then, when it was installed, I found that the tach wouldn't work correctly, and I was getting pinging or knocking under acceleration.

I double checked all the ground connections and other connections, using emery cloth, rubbing alcohol, dielectric grease and a multi-meter.  

[nhmaf]

I've got a Dyna III on my 78 R100/7, but I didn't install it myself, it was already on the bike when I bought it.

It does seem like an inordinate amount of modification needed on your Boyer kit - I know that some folks have had Boyers on their older airheads, but I don't recall that such tweaking was needed.

There is the DYNA-III option still available, and, though more expensive some people have said it was the bees-knees, the OMEGA ignition system.

[disco51]

I have a Boyer electronic ignition on my 1979.  It came to me that way, so I have no idea of the effort it took to install.  It does work just fine... no issues since I've owned it.

[Barry]

Can't help with experience of the Boyer fitment but the pinging suggests too much advance. As it sounds like the original advance mechanism is retained maybe Boyers timing procedure is at fault. I would retard the ignition until it just stops pinging.

On the erratic tachometer I wonder if the loss of the points condenser is the cause. I guess the Boyer fitting instructions say to remove it. If they do how is the ignition wire terminated at the Bean can in that square hole.

A question that springs to mind is how easy is to revert to points if needed. Do the modifications preclude this ?

[quixotic]

. As it sounds like the original advance mechanism is retained maybe Boyers timing procedure is at fault. I would retard the ignition until it just stops pinging.

On the erratic tachometer I wonder if the loss of the points condenser is the cause. I guess the Boyer fitting instructions say to remove it. If they do how is the ignition wire terminated at the Bean can in that square hole.

A question that springs to mind is how easy is to revert to points if needed. Do the modifications preclude this ?  

The advance mechanism had to be removed in order to install the Boyer.  All except for the unremovable stuff, like the posts that the springs had attached to.  It wasn't easy to revert to the mechanical system, but I had no choice.  And I also had to bend back the spring posts to their original positions.

The square hole was still used by the Boyer, but by a couple of wires from the new stator plate.  These wires then went up to the coils, etc.  

It was difficult to modify the timing, since the Boyer unit screwed up the tach readings (the tach is back to normal, now that I have the OEM back in).  I managed to get the non-advanced timing working at idle, but higher up in the rev range, everything was a bit too erratic to get a decent sighting on the flywheel marks.  Now, everything is fine, though.

I guess I'll chalk it up to experience, since Boyer long ago quit answering my e-mails.  They wouldn't even confirm or deny whether they had tested their units in any of the 1978 to 80's.  At some point, I'll probably look into the DYNA-III, as mentioned above...or maybe I won't (just looked on their website and see that they only go up to 1978 for the Beemers).

[steve hawkins]

What is wrong with your points system?

I am still running points, and I only look at them once a year and rarely need to adjust.  I have found them to be so reliable and I often question the need for an upgrade to electronic ignition.

My bike has more than 100,000 miles on it and it is the original bean can.  I have to say I gave it a good clean and lube about 15,000 miles ago when I first put the Cafe Racer together.  I have had to replace the condenser once, but only as I had crimped the wire accidently with the cover.  The points in the bike are at least 5 years old.

I am not doing a huge mileage it has to be said.  But I am on my second set of points in 12 years.  And I have kept the old set as spares as there was really nothing wrong with them.

Cheers

Rev Light.

[Barry]

No personal experience but of all the aftermarket ignition systems, Boyer seem to get by far the most problems reported in the various airhead forums. I guess many or even most times they work fine. You are not alone though in having installed one and taken it out again.

My preference is a points amplifier. Cheap, simple and reverting to normal points operation is easy at the side of the road. After that if I was spending big bucks I'd want a crank mounted system that did away with any timing chain issues and also allowed for easy reversion to points.

[Armen]

Using the EME Enduralast alternator and crank trigger ignition almost my airheads. Not a cheap date, but almost twice the charging and the ignition is bang on all the time.

[quixotic]

Using the EME Enduralast alternator and crank trigger ignition almost my airheads. Not a cheap date, but almost twice the charging and the ignition is bang on all the time.

Wow!  Thanks for that.  Even just looking at their install pdf has me impressed.  44 pages of instructions with lots of color photos.  All Boyer sent me was a single typed sheet with squinty text and with a line-drawn illustration with wiring that didn't look like what they sent me.  

[quixotic]

What is wrong with your points system?

I am still running points, and I only look at them once a year and rarely need to adjust.I have found them to be so reliable and I often question the need for an upgrade to electronic ignition.

I think my problem is somewhere in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders
[smiley=drowning.gif]

Something to do with the old Rolling Stones song: Can't Get No Satisfaction.  Or maybe the 2nd Noble Truth of the Buddhists...something about the relationship between desire and suffering.  Or an inability to appreciate the old saw about things that aren't broken not needing to be fixed.  Or maybe I'm just an unreformed tinkerer.  

I'd ask for help, but I'm having too much fun...except when I waste time and money on something like a Boyer.   [smiley=wall.gif]

[quixotic]

Using the EME Enduralast alternator and crank trigger ignition almost my airheads. Not a cheap date, but almost twice the charging and the ignition is bang on all the time.  

Am I correct in assuming that if I don't have a lot of hungry accessories, I shouldn't need the Enduralast alternator?  Or are there significant gains elsewhere?  

I suspect that I'll get the crank mounted sensor, and the next time I have the tank off, I'll see if I need a coil upgrade.

Thanks again.

[nhmaf]

Alot of people go with the Enduralast for the charging system upgrade, and then decide to add the ignition unit since they are "going in there" anyway.   The upgrades alternator is pricey, but you'd have plenty of juice to use with heated grips, clothing, and running your cell phone charger or GPS, or to add higher powered headlamps if legal in your area.  I suppose that once one gets the increased capacity, one finds plenty of ways to use it..

[montmil]

...  I suppose that once one gets the increased capacity, one finds plenty of ways to use it..

Also my opinion on those honkin' big, boxy aluminum side cases that are so popular with the "poseur" adventure riders; those with nary a scratch on their bike nor a grease spot nor snag in their Klim riding suits.

I really believe the "home" button on their de rigor GPS is actually the location of Cooper's BBQ in Llano, Texas. Great 'cue but does seem to be some magical pull for the heavyweight show boats.

Oh gee, guess my bias is showing. [smiley=lolk.gif]

[montmil]

Am I correct in assuming that if I don't have a lot of hungry accessories, I shouldn't need the Enduralast alternator?  Or are there significant gains elsewhere?

Not an assumption. You're thinking is correct.

In good nick, your existing charging system will be just fine. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

[Barry]

Am I correct in assuming that if I don't have a lot of hungry accessories, I shouldn't need the Enduralast alternator?Or are there significant gains elsewhere?  

I tend to agree as there are several things you can do before investing maybe a third of the bikes value in a new alternator.

High set point voltage regulator and a gel type battery will go some way towards making the charging system cope with typical airhead use. The gel battery will help where a bike is infrequently used and has a flooded battery with a high self discharge rate.