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Author Topic: 850cc kits  (Read 1135 times)

Armen

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850cc kits
« on: April 06, 2013, 07:12:27 PM »
There has been some mention of problems with the San Jose 850cc kits for the R65s. Wondering what exactly went wrong? A little more detail than 'It blew up, man!' would be helpful.
Seems pretty straightforward. Just bigger slugs.
thanks,
-Armen

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2013, 07:25:10 PM »
From what little info has been available online, the lower end of the engines fail .

I think it may be the way the bike was treated, 'rode hard ' !!!!

One of our members here has an 850 cc kit on his bike and he has not any issues with it so far .

I was looking at an R65 with the 850 upgrade last October, but decided against even looking at it, like I don't have enough bikes already !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 07:25:35 PM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Armen

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2013, 09:23:47 PM »
"I think it may be the way the bike was treated, 'rode hard ' !!!!"

I was wondering the same thing. With the higher redline of the r65, they are closer to the point where the oil pumps cavitate than the big block motors. Wondering if a little over-enthusiastic over-revving starved the crank/rod bearings. The bearings are the same as the big block motors, so they shouldn't pooch easily.
I've got a bunch of parts on the shelf for 20+ years I've never used. Basically, a long rod 850 kit. Uses the 1 liter rods and a 94mm barrel cut shorter than stock, but longer than R65. Wrist pin boss moved up.
Should give a rod to stroke ratio of approx 2.2-1. Smokey Yunich always said 'use the longest damn rods you can stuff into a motor!"
-Armen

tvrla

  • Guest
Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 11:44:42 PM »
I think I'm the only one here with an 850 LS.

The bike needed lotsa love when I took it in. It ran rough and looked worse, but it did run. It's got 60K on the clock best I can figure out - incomplete records, so don't really know for sure. It's had head work, but I don't know what specifically, but it's got dual valve springs and the ports were modified because the 32mm Bings don't fit like they should. It's got 34mm flat slide Mikunis, and that's how I got it.

The bike definitely was loved in the past, but started using oil and interest waned (my guess - though it was using oil) and wound up in the hands of an unscrupulous college student who accelerated the downward spiral, among other things, dumped it in a construction zone hotrodding in the city.

After all that, it still ran. It had been running rich and the left side was so carboned up, it made a knocking or ringing sound with the valves hitting the piston. Replaced the rings, cleaned up the heads, repaired the broken fins, replaced the 2 into 1 with stock exhaust, straightened the wheels, replaced the mirrors, fixed the levers, recovered the seat, replaced the black plastic fairing piece... and that's just the main stuff.

It is waiting the removal of the left side again because it sounds like I've got wrist pin noise - logical due to the strain with the earlier carbon build up. But it runs great with loads of power. Its personality isn't like my other bikes - it WANTS to go! I find it difficult taking it easy on that one.

One thing I know I'll have to do is put some attention on the breather. The R65s don't have the same breather set up as the larger bikes, and I think it's not really up to the increased capacity. Besides that, my hose out of the breather needs replacing and makes a mess in the starter area.

I've heard that the R100 cylinders don't work very well since the push rod tubes are at a different angle, so don't seal up that well. It would be nice to have nikasil cylinders, but don't think it's in the cards.

Armen

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 08:33:52 AM »
Hey Wirespokes,
Thanks for the detailed response.
I made up a jig to hold the original cylinder on the milling machine and pick up the pushrod angle and point of contact on the case. I'll then swap out the R100 barrel and machine the pushrod hole to the same angle and location. I'll build up the area around the pushrod with some JB weld so there is enough material to hold the new pushrod. I bought stainless R100 pushrod tubes from MotoIsrael in Germany, which I'll cut to the proper length once I figure out what that is....
-Armen

simonsyncro

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2013, 05:25:52 PM »
Dear Armen and Wirespokes

I am based in the UK and am exploring the 850cc options for my R65

It was popular with the Michel brothers in Germany in the 1970s (who also produced a 500cc 2-stroke horizontal twin using Maico barrels)

I had thought they used short con rods and was interested to read you can use the long rods

my question is which pistons can you use and what modification do they need?

I didnt understand "Wrist pin boss moved up" statement.

Armen are  you doing this conversion now or are the parts still sitting on your shelf awaiting the day???!!!  

Are modifications needed to the R65 heads with the wider barrels

I look forward to hearing from you

thanks

Simon

Armen

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 10:22:59 PM »
Hi Simon,
The parts are still on the shelf. The bike is waking up after 23+ years of being off the road after an accident. For now, I'm concentrating on getting it sorted out and running with a few mods.
This year I've installed the EME alternator and starter, and have the 32mm Mikunis 1/2 done. Caliper just rebuilt, and forks are next.
When I ordered the pistons, I had Venolia (the manufacturer) machine the blanks with the wrist pin hole as high as possible. A set of 94mm/1,000 cc barrels were cut down to a height appropriate to using the longer 1 liter rods.
I'll have to deal with the heads being 10mm taller than stock.
And I'll have to reangle the pushrod tubes.
Hopefully I can take the headpipes to a muffler shop and have a bit of a kick inward put into them.
Realistically, the 850 top end won't happen this year.
I'd like to use a set of Moto Israel rods as they are quite a bit lighter than stock.
I'll post updates to the list.
thanks,
-Armen

tvrla

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Re: 850cc kits
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 11:37:12 PM »
Mine's got the Venolia pistons and the wrist pins are very close to the oil ring.

With all the modifications, I'd think it would be easier to source an R100 block for the upgrade. Then get some longer rods to place the piston at the top again.

I didn't do the work to mine, so don't know what was done to the heads, though it does appear they got extensively massaged. The ports were modified and it's got dual valve springs - that's all I know for sure.

It's running 34mm flat slide Mikunis and it really likes to go! It wants to be ridden by a hooligan - and I think it's doing a make-over on me.