The member photo gallery is now integrated and live!!  All user albums and pictures have been ported from old gallery.


To register send an e-mail to admin@bmwr65.org and provide your location and desired user name.

Author Topic: Carb issues  (Read 6029 times)

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 11:43:57 AM »
Flat tops never had springs.

Sounds like the slide stiction on the left side has gone away.

If it still runs rough, setting the mixture screws at 3/4 turns out might be responsible. I see Haynes says 1/2 for UK and 3/4 for US models but I don't understand why. It makes no sense as the pilot jets are the same size.  Try turning them in to 1/2 turn out.

I'd try the temperature measurement after a long enough run for the engine to be properly warmed up.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 11:45:10 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 12:23:27 PM »
the bike feels more like a misfire though....

can i check the timing without a light?

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 02:20:39 PM »
Quote
can i check the timing without a light?  


With points - Yes static timing can be checked very accurately but the maximum advance figure is ultimately more important to the engine.

Ignition off. Disconnect the bean can lead and attach an ohm meter or buzzer between the the bean can spade terminal and any earth point like the barrel fins.

Not my preferred method but alternatively with the ignition on you can  leave the bean can lead attached and connect a test light across the points but beware of coil heating and leave grounded plugs in the caps.

With the plugs out rotate the engine clockwise with an Allen key in the rotor bolt and observe the timing marks through the inspection window.

The points should open (buzzer stops or ohm meter shows open circuit or test lamp goes off) when the S mark is aligned with the notch in the left side of the timing window.

Ideally check with a strobe to ensure at 3000+ rpm the Z mark is aligned to indicate the correct amount of maximum advance.  Once you have established that the maximum advance is correct and correlated that with the static timing then I find no need for further strobe timing checks except at long intervals to check for wear in the advance mechanism.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 02:37:01 PM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 06:48:26 PM »
so i think i checked it properly, and it was really retarded, i advanced it as much as i could, which it just about full advanced and still runs rough... it just won't stay idling and also the response time when i give it gas is severely delayed, i bet that i could stall the motor if i gave it full throttle and backed off then gave it full again..

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2012, 07:40:21 AM »
Quote
so i think i checked it properly, and it was really retarded, i advanced it as much as i could, which it just about full advanced and still runs rough...

When you you checked it and found it was really retarded. How exactly did you do it ?
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Mike V

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 858
  • 78 R100/7 , 81 R65
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2012, 08:44:38 AM »
Help me out fellas for year/fitment on a 1980, points and condenser in a can?

If the carbs seem to be operating correctly...
Have you checked your coils for cracks, solid mounting?  Condition of points for alignment and pitting?  And the often overlooked condenser?  Ignition wiring and connections? Assumed fuel problems often lead us to electrical. Just not sure of the particular ignition arrangement on a 1980.

Another thought and wild guess.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 08:46:04 AM by Mike_V »
Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2012, 08:48:41 AM »
did the ohm meter check method with the ignition off, and basically the points were open when the S was low in the viewing hole.

i advanced it and the bike just really feels like its just running on one cylinder

Offline Mike V

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 858
  • 78 R100/7 , 81 R65
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2012, 09:04:54 AM »
Have you checked the condition of your plug wires and their connections at the coil?  Resistance measurements with them removed?

Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

Offline Barry

  • Mt. Olympus Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 09:21:18 AM »
Quote
did the ohm meter check method with the ignition off, and basically the points were open when the S was low in the viewing hole.

If the points just opened when the S mark was low in the window then the ignition was 2 or 3 degrees too retarded (assuming your notch is mid window). You should advance from there until the S mark is in the centre of the window.   Take care with parallax error and sight as low down as you can just over the top of the carb.

A small amount of timing error would not account for really rough running.



Mike

All R45/65's up to and including 1980 were points in a can with the condenser fixed to the outside of the can.


Edited to correct mix up with Advanced/Retarded
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:34:03 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2012, 10:15:07 AM »
i can take pictures, but the points were replaced about 400 miles ago, along with the condenser. I will check the wires but the coils were taken off the bike and cleaned, i had connection issues with them before but when i did the spark test i figured they were fine because i was getting a nice blue spark. ill test the wires as well

Offline Mike V

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 858
  • 78 R100/7 , 81 R65
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2012, 10:29:44 AM »
Thanks Barry I should have known that,

I'm just trying to determine if the one side is not firing at all, intermittent or weak.

Process of elimination...

Have we determined the compression by a compression test?  I always start with valves but it seems we've covered that.  Curious of the condition of the tappet adjusters and if recession could be an issue.  But if we know the cylinders are pumping adequately and in time, we can eliminate that part.

Have you done a flow test with the carb bowls off and lifting on the floats with a container below?  If we can eliminate air and fuel - we can move on to the zapping.

This one has me curious.
Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

Session101

  • Guest
More like misfire/one cylinder not running
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2012, 05:08:58 PM »
Thanks guys for your help by the way, im trying to take pictures and videos to keep you guys right there with me, so here is pictures of my coils. after that i have a video showing that i have spark and its good spark, 2nd video is the bike i tried to get to run today, the only way i can get it to run is off choke, pump a couple of times then give it gas when i hear it fire and keep giving it gas while its running or else it just starves out. mind you when i pulled and went through the carbs i have not touched the idle screw at all from when it was perfectly running before.





[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiGwgM_3Lt4&feature=plcp[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEq0c7Pl8A8&feature=plcp[/media]

Also did an Ohm test on the wires and both were 4.85, so i think they are fine, i even switched for good measure and still no difference...
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 05:16:30 PM by Session101 »

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2012, 05:21:41 PM »
oh wanted to add the sound you hear is just strong on the right cylinder, but because BMW has the crossover i can't tell about the left side

Offline Mike V

  • Lives at Base of Mt. Olympus
  • ***
  • Posts: 858
  • 78 R100/7 , 81 R65
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2012, 06:55:29 PM »
Session,

I have a feeling this is going to be a simple solution >>> once we find it!  What are the condition of your plugs (hard to tell in the clip)?  Is one wet?  Sounds like a completely dead cylinder to me and the "visual" spark seems to be enough to light the jugs off if they're adequately compressing a fuel and air mixture (at the right time).

1.) Have you checked your valve settings?
2.) Compression Test?
3.) Fuel Flow test like I described earlier with the bowls off?
4.) Is fuel getting to the combustion chambers?
5.) Did you disassemble the needle jets and atomizers in the carbs? Enrichener circuits?
6.) Are you smelling raw fuel after running it?

After re-reading your first post; you put new diaphrams in the carbs and after ±80 miles it started running poorly.  Hmm.

What do you think guys?

Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

Session101

  • Guest
Re: Carb issues
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2012, 08:20:34 PM »
haven't checked the valves on that side i will try to do that tomorrow

compression was good within 10 of each other, i sprayed pentrating oil in the cylinder, that's why the plugs were wet, but the left side the rings are worn but ok

flow test, yes fuel is going and shutting off correctly with the floats

i disassembled the whole carb and sprayed out everything including the atomizer and the jets

no raw fuel smell after running