electric start wont work

[oz_johnno]

Greetings yet again,
I took my R65 Beryl out on a ride on wednesday that included about 80km (50 miles) of bumpy corrugated dirt road. We stopped numerous times for pictures and after about 75% of the ride, I went to start beryl up again and the electric start didnt work !!  WTF?  ignition lights were on, kill switch was in the run position, and she bump started very easily.  It just wouldnt start with the electric start after that.

So after I give her a wash, I need to fix up the electric start some how.

any advice as to how to proceed with diagnosing the fault ??

Cheers

Johnno

[Bob_Roller]

I've got a few ideas, is the transmission neutral light working ?

If you pull the clutch lever in, does the starter work ?

With the fuel tank off, do any of the relays click when the starter button is depressed ?

The starter relay if you can identify it, is one of the taller plastic cased relays, that should have what looks like a wiring diagram molded into the top of the case, if you can identify it, press down on the top of the relay, you can manually close the contacts in the relay by doing this and cause the starter to operate .

[tvrla]

The first step in troubleshooting is having a knowledge of how the system works - 'A' causes 'B' to happen, which then causes 'C'. With that data it's possible to work down the chain of command and locate the failure. In this case, there are a couple of options - work your way from the starter back to the battey, the other way around, or inspect the system for anything that doesn't look right. In this case, the last one is what I'd do first since the rough road could have jiggled something loose. If yours is an early model, I've heard the ground connection at the coil commonly breaks off.

At any rate, the tank needs to come off and take a look. Do you know your way around a multimeter?

[montmil]

[size=18]+[/size] [smiley=thumbup.gif]  Definitely with 'spokes comment, "...since the rough road could have jiggled something loose". Fifty miles of rough road would be tough on a marginally secure electrical connection or an "earthing" bracket.

I usually start at the battery and work forward. Small flashlight and fingers may turn up a loose wire. As everything else seemed to function normally, pay particular attention to the starting system harness. may sure the starter relay has not jiggled out of contact.

It's something simple. Grab a cold Fosters and your comfy stool to perch on. Not a bad way to pass a little time. And make sure your battery is fully charged...

[Bengt_Phorqs]

All of the above, but from my experience I'll wager a dollar to a donut that the magnets in the starter motor have come unglued.  Had that happen to me.  Rebuild is possible, Motorrad Elektrik does it, so do several others.  If you can bump start it you know that the rest of the electrical system works.

That's my long distance diagnostic opinion.

[oz_johnno]

Thanks for the suggestions blokes.  I gotta give the old girl a bit of a wash in the morning, then I will proceed as outlined.  I am an electrical designer and have spent some time on various mining sites chasing down faults, so I do know my way around a multimeter.

Experience has shown me I should start at the simple (loose wire before checking the catastrophic (magnets ungluing)

I will give it a bit of a go tomorrow and let you guys know how I get on.

Thanks for your help.......

OZ

[Lucky_Lou]

What year is it Johnno, Gertie (79) has done this a couple of times and the K had a wobble too, i put it in gear rocked the bike back and forth back into neutral and it works.... not going to loose sleep as its only an  occasional problem.
Lou
Greetings from Atlantis..... will the rain ever stop ??

[tvrla]

I never know how much experience the owner has, so it's nice you're on the knowledgeable side. That's a good point about the starter magnets - if it's a Valeo, that's a possibility. Otherwise I suspect a bad connection in the starter circuit somewhere.

Got a wiring diagram? We've got some here somewhere.

Try activating the starter via the relay, or jumpering the starter from the battery - easy, yet informative tests.

[Bengt_Phorqs]

Johnno, did you ever get resolution to the non start issue?  What have you found?

[oz_johnno]

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the delay but i just got onto looking into the problem today.

I started by disassembling the right hand switch assembly, I cleaned it, aput it back together and started testing the wiring.

wiring from start button to starter relay base = ok

wiring from relay base to starter solenoid = ok

shorted out the starter solenoid = ok

Answer:  The starter relay is fried.  I'm told that the original starter relay can be rebuilt but these days they are a disposable item.  I will pick up a new one tomozza..... sweeet.

Again sorry bout the delay.  The back has been playing up with the onset of winter.

Cheers


OZ

[Bob_Roller]

Don't know where you're going to get your relay from, but in this application, the starter relay has a unique part, a diode that prevents the neutral indication light from coming on whenever the clutch lever is pulled in .

If you don't get the part from a BMW motorcycle source, it will cause problems for you .

[tvrla]

If you don't get the part from a BMW motorcycle source, it will cause problems for you .

Unless you solder your own diode into the circuit.

[oz_johnno]

thanks for the help guys.  I rang the local BMW stealership and they wanted $61 for the starter relay WTF !!  

I went to cheap as shit autos and brought a $10 relay and away it went.  I will get the oem relay later....

If I get sick of the neutral light coming on every time I change gear in the mean time I will put a diode across a couple of terminals.

Thanks again blokes

OZ

[Bob_Roller]

If you do solder a diode in, mind the direction it's installed in the original relay .

The diode should have a silver band around it at one end .

If you put it in wrong, the indication will be the same as if it wasn't installed .

[k_enn]

Check Bob's BMW for the starter relay.  I can't remember what I paid ofr one the other year, but it was a way better price than your dealer.

k_enn