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Author Topic: Broke down on way home from Work today...  (Read 16380 times)

jg928s4

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Broke down on way home from Work today...
« on: September 21, 2011, 08:46:03 PM »
1980  R65    Died in interesection, got starter function, float bowls full of gas, sounded like it was trying to start when I pushed to side of road.  Daughter brought me a few tools and I tinkered w/it until Battery went dead.     AAA on call to get it home, will charge battery and check for good spark, any other suggestions?     Had been running good until now.

Red_Hen

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 09:17:19 PM »
Sorry to hear that.

I'm not the resident expert, but sounds like something electrical related.
Coil? Diode board?  Loose wire?

Bike dying suddenly sounds electrical related.

Wish I had the answer but it's going to take some diagnosis.  I bought the CD from Rick Jones on electrical troubleshooting, and found it helpful in solving some problems I was having.

Looking forward to hearing the process you'll go through and what the RX is.

Good Luck - am sure others will chime in to help you figure it out.

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 09:18:37 PM »
Only problem area I know of on the 78-80 model bikes, is the main ground for the electrical system is the clamp that holds the front ignition coil.

If the clamp cracks you can lose all of the grounds for the bikes electrical system.

That's just a guess on my part .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Adrian

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 11:09:51 PM »
Hi Jg - my R65 died on me in exactly the same way just 45 k's after I bought it. It turned out to be the OEM coil just died. I had it replaced by my then local dealer and 5 years later it died again. It seems that these OEM coils have a limited life I eventuallyfound out from BMW shop. I bought an after market coil from them about 10 years ago and it's still running okay. If it turns out to be the coil then maybe find a quality aftermarket unit instead of the OEM unit. Good luck finding the fault mate ....
1984 R65 (860)

jg928s4

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 11:28:29 PM »
best way to check the coil?   I have a volt meter handy.   Front coil is mounted on solidly, rear coil strapped on w/Cable tie and Guerilla tape as always been last 3 months.  

Cleaning airfilter, shot some started fluid to see if would start no luck.  Spark plugs seem awfully clean and dry upon inspection...

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 11:44:09 PM »
Does it even attempt to 'fire', or is it just starter motor whirring and no signs of any combustion whatsoever?

Can you (carefully) remove 1 spark plug at a time, plug it back into the plug lead and hold the plug threads against the cylinder fins (best use gloves) and turn the ignition on?    Any spark present while trying to crank the motor?  
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

jg928s4

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 12:10:21 AM »
Verified spark on both sides as suggested above, when did put a bit of stater fluid in before replacing plug and it seemed like it wanted to fire up, but no start.  

How can I tell if fuel is making it's way to the fire?  needle valves pluged?  Fuel in bowls, but did some debri get by the paper filter?

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 12:55:41 AM »
Quote
Hi Jg - my R65 died on me in exactly the same way just 45 k's after I bought it. It turned out to be the OEM coil just died. I had it replaced by my then local dealer and 5 years later it died again. It seems that these OEM coils have a limited life I eventuallyfound out from BMW shop. I bought an after market coil from them about 10 years ago and it's still running okay. If it turns out to be the coil then maybe find a quality aftermarket unit instead of the OEM unit. Good luck finding the fault mate ....
Adrian - I think you have a 1984?  If so, you have electronic ignition and indeed your OEM coil was a bad design by BMW (or Bosch).  In fact, it earned the nickname "crack-o-matic".

jg has a 1980, which is a points ignition and two separate coils.  My original coils were still working great when I replaced them 5 or 6 years ago "just because".

Like Bob mentioned, my front coil mount broke off the main frame a long time ago, taking the main ground connection with it.

jg - check that connection and make sure that it is clean, and that the coil mount is not getting ready to fall off.
Take your ohm meter and check for continuity between that point and the negative terminal on the battery.

Besides the big fat positive wire going to the starter, there is a small positive wire that is hooked to the battery.  Make sure it is in good shape.

Disconnect the ground wire on the battery, and then remove the front engine cover and look around.

And you might want to consider a preemptive relocation of the harness ground, for the day that the front coil mount DOES break.
Here is how I did mine:





Remove the paint on the bracket and use dielectric grease (or even Vaseline or axle grease) on the connection.


These bikes will run on only one cylinder, and even start on only one, so it is unlikely that both carburetors were affected simultaneously.  As long as you have fuel in both bowls, you should be OK there.

It is also possible that the condenser that hangs on the side of the bean can failed.  If you decide to replace it, don't throw away the old one until you are certain that that was the problem.  It is always good to have an old working one for backup.

Have you checked / measured your point gap and condition of the points since you got the bike?
Feel free to remove the bean can from the bike to make this chore easier, but you might want to use a Sharpie (pen) to mark the position of the bean can before removing it so you can get your timing in approximately the right spot when you put it back.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 01:05:56 AM by Rob_Valdez_79_R65 »

jg928s4

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 12:59:55 AM »
will do tomorrow, thanks for the replies.

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 01:06:43 AM »
Quote
will do tomorrow, thanks for the replies.
Please be sure to see my edits.

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 08:26:19 AM »
Now you are down to the basics of troubleshooting: fuel, spark,compression .

What color is the spark at the plugs, is it a white/blue, or yellow/orange ?

Check the points condition, are they black and 'sooty' looking, that's a good indication of a failed condenser.

Check the resistance of the ignition coils primary and secondary circuits, the primary circuit should have around 3 ohms, the secondary around 11-13,000 ohms .

With the fuel line routing on these bikes, the left cylinder will quit before the right cylinder, and it will still run for up to a minute on the right cylinder only, if it is a fuel delivery problem, but check both carb bowls for fuel, if the bowls have debris in them, a good cleaning is in order .  

Do a compression test of both cylinders, check valve clearances if you haven't done them .
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 08:58:21 AM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

tvrla

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 11:23:27 AM »
It's really easy to forget about the points since they tend to last forever hidden away in that 'bean can'. And, they probably are still good, only problem is the rubbing block. If they don't get regularly lubed, they'll wear down and eventually the points won't open.

As already stated, I'd suspect points or condenser.

jg928s4

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2011, 10:57:15 PM »
spark seems a dull orange.   cleaned up the ground and dialectic jelly on ground under connection.   Is there a secret to take off of the top engine cover?  Took off bolt allen bolts, don't want to force off, is there something else I am missing?

Offline Julio A.

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2011, 11:07:37 PM »
The top cover would be easier removed when the airbox top cover is removed as well. But it should come out with or without removing the airbox cover. Just the remove the two allen bolts and pull straight up.
Julio Alarcon
1981 R65
1976 R90/6
2001 R1150 GS/ADV
2015 TR650

jg928s4

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Re: Broke down on way home from Work today...
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2011, 11:50:33 PM »
thanks, have the airbox cover off, will give a good pull tomorrow.