newly purchased '79 having trouble starting

[mendozeal]

hey guys, I have been lurking for a long time now, dreaming of the day I would buy my beemer boxer. Last saturday, I sealed the deal on a 79 dual spring r65, with the flat top 32 bing carbs with 19xxx miles, for 1500$
apparently she sat for about a year, (on the coast) with the very occasional start. had been backed into lightly, small dent on left tank, missing the right mirror. she made the 150 miles of twisty cali mountains. from sausalito to mendocino like a dream. all the low end torque I dreamed of. I have put about 200 or so miles on it since.
It was/is leaking a small amount of oil from the bolts on the little valve rods that are under the cylinder, (I have no idea what to call it) slow leak, figured I would replace as much as possible once I got it opened up. patch the rest. and a couple more little little leaks, (I have been keeping a close eye on all the fluids.) just old rubber needing attention. and then the list of things to change/upgrade/add, that has not stopped getting longer yet.

I have had no trouble with it (besides buying a new battery, and a little bit of playing with idle adjustments. (waiting for clymer and bing shop manual))until this morning, when it wouldnt start. It wanted to catch, and started a couple times for about 5-6 sec, once or twice on choke, once or tiwce without. seemed like it wanted to run, but couldnt get past the low start idle to warm up, and bogged out with even the smallest amount of throttle.
tried all the tweeks I know, after almost 2 hours frustration set in, so I pushed it in the garage, and got out my wrenches.
1st, put the new battery on the charger, just in case.
got the gas tank off, inspecting electricals, air filter, looks like it needs cleaning but nothing shocking...
my first thought was it had to be the carbs, pulled off the floater, and the flat top (waiting for shop manual) but from what I can see without disconnecting any thing more, It appears clean.
the plugs are a little dirty, but nothing that appears shocking
Ill check valve clearance as soon as my manual shows up.

I am not the greatest mechanic, but I am a quick learner... please bear with me... sorry if this is a repeater, but lurking gets old..
 
should I check the coils? Icu?  starter, points, and well   how?
timing? some random fluid that eludes me? it does sound a little rough when it doesnt catch and start.

is this worth taking to a shop?
PLEASE! any advice at all,   I am all ears, and just eager to finally post here!!!

[Barry]

Where to start.

First off the leak under the cylinder sounds like your push rods seals are leaking and if they have never been changed you may need new ones. Not an easy first job to do so I'd put that at the back of the queue for now.

As for the starting problem you need compression, fuel and a spark.

Compression - might be a good idea to check the valve clearances. There is no easier engine to do it on. Get the engine at TDC by centring the OT mark in the flywheel inspection hole (rubber bung) and both valves on one side can be set.  Inlet .004" and Ex .008". Rotate the crank 360 Degrees and set the other side. You can rotate the crank with the plugs out by using an allen key in the alternator screw. Remove the front cover for access but be sure to disconnect the battery first.

Fuel - after your starting attempt were the plugs wet ? if so fuel was not the problem unless you had too much. Try starting with no choke. The carbs may need a good clean and new O rings anyway.

Spark - If it's stock you have points ignition which is very straight forward. You may have tried this but crank the bike with the plugs  connected and safely grounded on the heads so you can see how strong the spark is.

  

[Julio A.]

Your R65 idles but immediately dies when throttle is applied?

I'd clean the carburetor jets and cavities thoroughly especially the small enricher intake at the carb bowls as they tend to clog up very often.

+1 also on the Valve clearances, proper settings here will make a world of difference.

Congrats on the R65; sometimes it would seem to be a good idea to drop kick it out of frustration but I assure you that your hard work will eventually pay off

[montmil]

Your short ride home may have sloshed some water pooling in the tank bottom on the side opposite the petcock. Might also consider removing the tank and draining it completely. Watch for bits of tank liner that may be clogging the petcock screen and keeping the engine silent.

Try carefully popping off the float bowls and look for some water droplets or junk.

Start with simple things before throwing difficult and/or non-productive tasks at the bike.

Welcome to the herd. Most of the BMW Airheads issues turn out to be the simple stuff.

Monte

[mendozeal]

after months of lurking, it stokes me out that THE monte replied in less then 24 hrs to my first post. haha keep up the amazing work guys! really excited to be a part of this fourm!

(lol Julio, no drop kicking yet, maybe a mild tempt, but this is my dream bike, since I was 16. Being in its presence still seems surreal... too much love for violence )(thanks for the reassurance!!!)

push rod seals sounds accurate, and at 1 hr shop labor it seems worth it..

Today Im replacing the plugs, wires, air filter, o rings, fuel filter, running seafoam, and cleaning the carbs, cleaning electrical connections, changing all fluids, changing fuses, bleed brakes, maybe checking valve clearance (I may lack the confidence unless someone reassures me..(waiting for haynes download or clymer mail (what specialty tools required?) and some spot rust removal) and hoping it will fire up, to get to the shop tomorrow, and test charging system...
I got it pretty much dismantled last night, tank is off and drained, can you recommend a tank cleaner product?? or just some tedious elbow grease? (advice)

and I am doing headlight restoration, change/compact tail light cluster have to pull a small dent out of the tank, rust stop and bondo bottom of seat (or replace with a seat with extra interior cargo space?) do a sissy bar, and custom bag mounts (for my hiking gear (includes guitar, keyboard, ukulele, bass, and other music equip..) I would like a windshield (with hand protection)(call me what you want but I wanna put some miles on this thing in relative comfort.) and whatever else is on my list that isnt in front of me...

I have to ride it from CA to IL, with gear, hopefully in the next week.
my little brother IS somewhat of a mechanic and can help alot with further modification.

after IL, I ride back to CA, get my dog and a sidecar, (idea is to do a solo music tour, with just my dog, on a boxer, I have since recruited a girlfriend so the plan has changed a bit, but I still bought the r65!!!) and hopefully find a way to get a toyota rv to carry the r65 (at >400lbs shouldnt be too hard, and I can always dismantle and put the sidecar on the roof)
then tour the US, then Canada, Mexico, then back to NY where the r65 will be put on a boat and sent to meet me meet its forefathers (GERMANY) (then tour europe, asia, south america, and keep going  and going and going till I die.)
I have a camera, and a 4g hotspot, so you guys will be by my side the whole time!!

Sorry for the wordy message, I have been waiting a long time to share this with you guys...

(I I just sold my babied e30 325is, in champagne, this r bike matched, so  couldnt say no!)

[Barry]

maybe checking valve clearance (I may lack the confidence unless someone reassures me..(waiting for haynes download or clymer mail (what specialty tools required?)

I promise you it's easy. No special tools needed just feeler gauges and a few spanners. The only thing to remotely worry about is not to over tighten the nuts when you put the valve covers back on. Just snug them up. The gaskets tend to last for ever and don't leak.

The manuals are a good resource but they are not going to give you the full story they'll leave things out and tell you to do things you shouldn't  like re-torque the heads every time before checking the clearances. Now that's something to worry about as the torque figures they give will likely be a bit too high and you'll risk pulling threads. Re-torqing heads every time is not necessary in any case. Leave that job to when the pushrod seals are done as it has to be done then.

In fact why not just measure the clearances for now and report back. all you have to do is remove the valve covers and rotate the engine to TDC.

If you really want detail instructions you can trust and I do mean detail check out Snowbums web site. http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/setvalves.htm

[mendozeal]

thanks barry, thats alot of help!
 just got back from autozone with parts and paint
getting to work after we dump the rv waste tanks

Ill post results tonight

(you guys are amazing, best forum ever!)

[nhmaf]

To make it even easier on yourself when you adjust the valves -

I don't bother with taking the front engine cover off to turn the engine by the rotor's bolt (I'm also concerned of possibly constantly overtightening the bolt).  I just put the transmission into second or third gear with the bike on the center stand.   I can then turn the rear wheel while sitting near the timing window hole in the engine case, and can easily watch the valves on the left hand side at least to tell when I'm getting close to TDC on the flywheel.   This just seems easier to me than trying to hit TDC while squatting down at the front by the rotor, then getting up to check the mark in the window-oops, not there yet, going back to front of bike, etc....

It also means you have less to take apart.  AND AN IMPORTANT BIT OF INFO - DO NOT TAKE OFF THE FRONT ENGINE COVER WHILE THE BATTERY CABLE IS STILL CONNECTED!    IT is easy to short out a terminal on the diode board while trying to wrangle the cover out from behind the front crossover exhaust pipe, and if you do this while the battery is connected, well, then you'll get to learn about replacing a diode board.

Oh, and welcome aboard!

-Mike

[mendozeal]

halfway finished, the basics at least... still disassembled. Chickened out on valve clearance till I read more. Carbs clean as a whistle. plugs replaced, tank removed and drained completely (definitely dirty). thinking of upgrading cables, starter, and charging systems. dynacoil brown? yay or nay?
does anybody think this will help reliability? or any other quick upgrades for the quickly upcoming cross country?I have to order parts like yesterday.

Ill get back when I have it reassembled tomorrow.

[Barry]

dynacoil brown? yay or nay?  

Dyna coils are considered an excellent replacement. From memory it's the dyna green coil you need for a points ignition.  Which ever colour it is the primary resistance of a replacement 12 volt dual output coil should ideally be 3 ohms to match the pair of stock 1.5 ohm 6V coils. A little higher than 3 ohms would be OK but it certainly should not be less than 3 ohms.

[montmil]

... dynacoil brown? yay or nay? does anybody think this will help reliability? or any other quick upgrades for the quickly upcoming cross country?I have to order parts like yesterday...

Not the "Brownie", the other one. For all questions, concerns and purchases regarding your R65's electrical and charging systems, call Rick Jones at Motorrad Elektrik. http://www.motoelekt.com/index.html Rick handles the Dyna coil product line. His on-line catalog is an education in itself so bookmark him.

Rick runs a one-man band (note here the music reference, Sparrow) up in Northern Alabama. He supports the Airhead culture big time. Both the telephone call and the advice are free... even if you're not buying something that day.

The Dyna coil is excellent insurance. I would also suggest new tires capable of handling your soon-to-be new hack rig. Carry on.

And do listen to New Hamp Mike's front cover and battery cable advice.
See if you can spot my problem... [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

Monte



 

[tvrla]

It's possible the bike wouldn't start because of improper technique. The throttle should be off (or mostly so) for the choke to work. Once it starts to catch, open the throttle a little bit.

Get connected to the Airheads group and find someone near you to show you the ropes. These are simple bikes, but can be frustrating till you know what you're looking at. Fellow airhead riders tend to be very willing to help out another rider. Also, in your travels you'd be connected to that group as well and could meet up with them at the end of the day.

Since your bike was running well up to the point of not starting, I'd assume the problem is something simple. Just not knowing the proper starting technique might have been all it was.

Oh, and welcome to the forum and beemer ownership! I love that color!

[Barry]

See if you can spot my problem...

Monte

I was beginning to think the "front cover shorting out the diode board" was largely a myth because of the grey paint insulating the soldered joints. I see the problem there in terms of burnt components but just for our edification do you know exactly which part of the diode board shorted out on the front cover.

[tvrla]

The top part of the diode board is the common, or grounded, side. Touching there isn't a problem.

But the lower side is the hot - and directly connected to the battery. That large spade terminal on the right is the one.

So contacting anywhere on the bottom half would do it.

I took my covers off for years without disconnecting the positive lead, and if you're careful there won't be a problem. But since seeing that warning I pull the negative lead every time.

[Barry]

That large spade terminal on the right is the one. So contacting anywhere on the bottom half would do it.
 

I figured that but my live spade connections have insulating boots. That's why I'm curious how the shorting occurs. I even went over my diode board with a meter to check if anything really exposed was live and there's nothing as far as I can see. On the other hand I'm sure if you clout it hard enough with the cover...

Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating people taking risks here. Just curious and want to understand what's behind this long standing "Rule"