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Author Topic: Valve noise??  (Read 5903 times)

79beem

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Valve noise??
« on: January 05, 2011, 08:02:00 AM »
Happy New Year to all R65 nutters.  

My darling has a tap tap tap........... very consistant,regular noise above 3000rpm, which i noticed when i moved my legs off the tank to cool my........ well you know what i was cooling.

Anyway, i got quite a shock as i had'nt noticed this b4 but can now hear it without cooling system engaged ( legs on tank ).

Any ideas anyone on what this may be?

A friend, not a beemer owner ( ahem ) reckons i should'nt worry.

I'am going to check valve clearances first, but need clarification.

The clymer manual states .1mm exhaust and .2mm inlet.

Is this correct?

It also states re-torqueing head nuts every time , but i read on this forum only to re-torque heads once?

She's a lovely 79 model and i've put a 1000km ( full lube check / service prior ) on the clock this last week in my sheer unquenchable thirst and desire 4 the open road..............

 I'm desperate to get her out there again but don't want to risk any damage if thats where i'm heading with this noise?????

Cheers

Ian


darrylri

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 08:09:25 AM »
The valve clearances, measured cold, are inlet 0.15mm/0.006" and exhaust 0.20mm/0.008".

You might also want to torque the heads once to make sure that they are right, as a starting point for your ownership.  While doing this, you also want to make sure that the rocker arms are tightened up and don't have excess vertical play, which also can make the valves loud.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 08:11:11 AM by darrylri »

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 08:21:40 AM »
The current spec after the BMW change notice dated (1982?) is .008" exhaust and .004" intake.  I've been using .008" EX and .006" IN for years.   I'm going to try .008 and .004 this next time around and see what happens.  Also there may be too much up and down play of the rocker arms on the shafts.
The should be only about .002" of endplay between the rocker arm and the post at the end.  If there is a bunch of play here the rocker arm will jump up and down "tapping" on the posts.  

Too fix:

Look at the supect rocker arm's push rod.  If the edge of the pushrod is really close to the wall tunnel, then loosen one of the two head bolts on that rocker so that when you sqeeze (coming next) the post together it pulls the pushrod away from the wall.

You need three or four hands for this next bit.

I bought a huge expensive monster set of plyers from sears with jaws that could hold the posts of the rocker arm between them just for this purpose.  

Check and adjust:

To check:
First rotate the cylinder so that the valve is fully closed and the rocker arm is free. Put the .002" feeler gauge between the post and the arm and slide the arm up and down.  

If there is play with the .002" feeler gauge in place then to adjust:
Keep the .002" feeler gauge between the post and the rocker arm. Put a torque wrench on the loose nut, and put some light gentile (think snug) pressure on the posts with the GIGUNDOUS set of plyers to squeeze them together.  When you can just move the feeler gauge, tighten the posts headnut with the torque wrench.  Check the valve clearence again when done.  

Remeber if you clamp down hard with the GIGUNDUS set 'o plyers then you will wear out lots of expensive parts long before their time.  There needs to be some play just not very much.  When you are done the rocker arm should still move freely.

Repeat for the other three rocker arms.

Go out and ride it.

Also when you took off the valve cover there was oil there right?  If the head parts are not wet with oil then you have another problem.   :-[

« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 08:38:55 AM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

79beem

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 08:39:15 AM »
Opps!

Got those valve figures wrong way round.

Cheers for the prompt reply guys.

havent started yet but theres definately oil in them heads,( Leaky )



Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 08:46:28 AM »
Ian - one other thing to watch out for is valve recession.  This is where the lip of the exhaust valve becomes too thin (actually sharp) with wear and the valve will sink deeper into the seat.  Eventually the valve drops through the seat and gets launched at the piston.  Impact destroys the valve (breaking the stem). The resulting cacohphony of a freerange valvehead destroys everything in the head quicker than you can reach the kill switch.

This can be seen by noting the valve clearence and writing it down each time you adjust the valves.  If you see that the exhaust valve is tightning up everytime you adjust the valves then you need to have the heads rebuilt and better modern valves put in.

The Original exhaust valves of our 1979 -1980 bikes last about 50-70000 miles before this must be done.  If its early days yet for your bike then just watch for it.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 08:49:53 AM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 08:49:44 AM »
There are shims available from BMW to take up the clearance between the rocker arm and support block .

They are originally meant for the upgraded rocker arms that have a plastic insert at one end .

I installed them on my '81 R65 75,000 miles ago, one shim looks like it needs replacing the last time I was in there checking the clearance .

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0364&mospid=51897&btnr=11_1698&hg=11&fg=30

Item # 17 .





« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 08:51:26 AM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Barry

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 09:36:39 AM »
As far as I know this is the history of BMW published valve clearances.


78 -80 owners manual   inlet .004"    Ex .006"

81-     owners manual   inlet  .002"    Ex .008"

Mar 82 BMW Service bulletin   inlet .004"    Ex .008"
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 09:38:05 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

raypond

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 01:36:11 AM »
G'day Ian,

Worn valve guides will make a fair bit of noise. At about 170,000km my R65 was running well, but noisy. Then a valve stem broke. The guides had an extraordinary amount of wear. New guides, new valves - much quieter.

Cheers
Ray

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 02:47:00 AM »
How many kilometers showing on the odometer?  Any idea if it is accurate?  (working, been replaced, etc.)

79beem

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 05:27:01 AM »
Cheers for the input everyone,
Going to order shims just in case with the gaskets keep u posted,tackleing leaky forks this wkend, then maybe valves if i have time.  

Rob, just passed 59,000.00, as far as i know its accurate.
Its not loud, but its definately noticeable when you move your legs off the tank.

79beem

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 03:49:13 PM »
I don't really know what an R65 should sound like when running tight and sweet.

Is the only sound i should hear the muffler and no engine notes / noise?


Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 04:00:03 PM »
No, you should hear plenty of engine noise.  Especially the tappets tapping.  It's a good thing.

79beem

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 04:48:29 PM »
Well i think thats what i have, tap tap tap tap.
What does valve noise sound like?

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 06:34:24 PM »
A well oiled sewing machine .
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Valve noise??
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 06:50:29 PM »
It's referred to as "BMW music". Crank it up! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet