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Author Topic: Front tire shake...  (Read 4970 times)

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2010, 12:51:08 PM »
Well, you would not get the smooth ride you are looking for, if the preload is not set correctly.

Too tight, and they will quickly wear out.  Too loose and the bike would probably feel "not good", and again, it would ruin your $84 investment.

I'm not sure to tell you how to proceed.  I have only participated in the procedure once, about 4 years ago, with several knowledgeable people around.

The best way to do this is to find a local Airhead chapter to join and host a Tech Session, advertising what you will be hoping to accomplish.
http://www.airheads.org/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 12:51:40 PM by Rob_Valdez_79_R65 »

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2010, 01:21:52 PM »
Well I called the shop and it's done. I'll ask about the preload when I get there, but I'm not expecting them to know anything about it. I suppose I'll have to drop it off at Iron Horse BMW and have them look it over and double-check.  Jeez, this is becoming an expensive lesson.

 :P

Offline Mike V

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2010, 02:45:34 PM »
Graeme,
If you're dedicated to doing this yourself I can try to help you along. I think Bob has just done his bearings also, I'm sure he can help. I just completed my /7 bearings. My initial advice would be; it's not difficult or complicated to remove and replace the grease seals and have a look at the existing condition of the tapered bearing cages yourself after cleaning. You can also do the pre-load test before reinstallation if the cages and outer races look ok. You'll need a few special tools, take a look through this thread and let me know if you want to procede on your own. I'm willing to share my limited experience. I think you'll have to join the MOA forum to view the pictures in the thread, I recommend you doing that since a picture is worth a thousand words. Your wheels won't be this difficult, I have the dreaded 78 all aluminum snowflake rear with no steel insert.

I will NEVER trust a dealer with airhead wheel bearings again.  Ever.

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46970



« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 02:46:12 PM by Mike_V »
Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

Offline Mike V

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2010, 02:47:51 PM »
Sorry, I guess my post is a little late.

 :-[
Mike V. / San Diego
'78 R100/7 (original owner)
'81 R65 (fully restored)

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2010, 03:12:51 PM »
Ah, no worries, Mike and thanks for the offer to help.  I actually WANT to learn how to do it, but don't have the tools or the time for the bike to be out of commission.  My Mustang carb just started puking gas so it's in need of a sudden rebuild, which puts our usable vehicles to the Jeep, a scooter, and the r65.

Anyway, so I picked up the tire from the local shop to the tune of $30 and asked the mechanic if he knew about the preload issue and the answer was written all over his blank face before he answered: "If I had known it was a BMW wheel before, I wouldn't have worked on it. We don't do BMW stuff here."

So right across the street to Iron Horse I went. And I even got a rather blank stare from the Service Manager, too. But he shrugged and pointed at a couple old airheads around the shop and said "We have guys that know old airheads, not to worry..." and he said they'd try to squeeze it in today.  

We'll see.... Now my "cheap" at-home tire change has cost $150 and counting.   ;D  Lesson learned for sure.

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2010, 03:35:17 PM »
I've been working on the rear wheel of my '82 LS, just trying to understand what really needs to be done with this pre-load .

After digesting all of the information about it , here's a real quick explanation of what's being attempted .

On a front wheel, it's a bit easier than a rear wheel .

Remove the inner and outer seals, clean all of the grease from the bearings and the outer races .

Reassemble the bearing and spacer stack-up without the seals, insert this back into the wheel .

Insert axle and the spacer that goes on the left side between the wheel and left fork tube .

Tighten the axle nut to what ever torque it calls for .

Spray a light oil onto the bearings so they have a bit of lubricant and aren't dry .

Next take a spring scale and see how much force is required to move the wheel .

If the force required is too high, add a shim between the spacers that are between the bearings .

If the force required is too light, you need to remove shims if they are installed, if you don't have any shims to remove, you need to get another small spacer, they come .5mm increment differences in length (correction, the spacers come in .05 mm increment differences) .

Measure what you have and then subtract .05 mm to get the next size shorter .

After you have this done, you need to grease the wheel bearings, re-assemble the stack-up including the inner and outer seals, then reinstall the wheel on the bike, torque to specified value, which I think is around the 35 foot pound area .

A bit of information is left out of this explanation, but this is the basic idea of what needs to be done .
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 11:43:08 AM by Bob_Roller »
'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2010, 06:59:18 PM »
And Duane (see link, above) has shim kits available.

"A set of six, two of three sizes, of these shims cost $10, postage included.  I sell these by the honor system.  Email me with your address and I will mail them out to you with a SASE.  It is up to you to insert payment and return.  If you don't know how to use them, or don't like them, just return them in the SASE."

« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 12:47:21 AM by Rob_Valdez_79_R65 »

Offline Bob_Roller

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'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 07:48:44 PM »
An update:  Iron Horse had the wheel a couple days but they finished it up yesterday.  They verified that the "other" moto shop had no idea what they were doing and said that the bearings were preloaded WAY too much, and the seals installed backwards.  Paid my $80 (ugh) and put it on the bike today...

... only to notice the front suspension "hop" is still there, right around 35-40mph.  Guess I'll have to remove the tire from the rim and inspect it for any strangeness. Have to wait until next week...

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2010, 10:54:32 AM »
Hi Graeme,

When all else fails you can always install the complete fron end from a 1988 K100RS.

THAT will get rid of the shakes.   8-)
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2010, 01:58:46 PM »
I've been doing some online research and found a couple instances exactly like mine where the REAR tire was out of balance and it caused the front to "hop/bounce" at a specific speed like mine does.  

Now that the front wheel has been inspected and balance professionally by BMW, I'm starting to look at that rear tire again.  Hmmm.....

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2010, 10:55:10 AM »
I've been doing some chatting over at the ADVrider forum, too and the collective airheads over there think the front wheel is bad.  I took a bad short video of the front wheel, and there definitely is a bump or two in the wheel... it is NOT true.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfCFn7Ogceo[/media]

What do you all think?  Should I start shopping for a used rim? I see one on ebay from a 1979 model right now for $150 + shipping.

Offline Rob Valdez 79 R65

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2010, 11:11:27 PM »
I can't say from looking at that video (even on full screen), but it is possible that it got bent if FIL hit some pot holes at speed on the dirt roads (I've done it!).

You really need to have something like a dial indicator  with the tire removed to know for sure.  Unless you can see it, because you are there.  I would accept that.

That eBay wheel is going to stress the wife-to-be, I might think.  (I'm divorced :'()
And when you get it, you would have to put your new bearings in it, for another $80?

But if you can make it work, and you can get some kind of assurance (return guarantee?) that the wheel is true, I would also say go for it.

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2010, 11:20:06 AM »
I took the bike to a local place that repairs/straightens aluminum car wheels. Turns out the owner works on local race bike wheels and is a motorcycle rider himself. He looked at the rim and did say it had a couple small dings in the outer edge but they weren't deep enough to affect the wheel, and certainly wouldn't explain the bounce.

So I was back to the tire. I dropped the tire off the rim again last night but couldn't find anything obvious to my amateur eye. I rotated it a bit on the rim and tried to re-mount.... and promptly punctured the tube which I didn't notice until I tried to air it up.

Ugh. Waving the white flag! I'm taking it to Southwest Moto Tires today to have them examine the tire, etc. He said that if the Shinko IS bad he has a Dunlop 404 110/90-18 that he'd give me a great deal on, but I don't think the 110 will fit up front... the 100 I have up there BARELY clears the fender.

So we'll see... will update later.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 12:56:04 PM by azcycle »

azcycle

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Re: Front tire shake...
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 03:11:25 PM »
Just got back from dropping the wheel of at Southwest Moto Tires.  They inspected the tire and said that there was some damage to the wire bead that could cause an out-of-round tire.  Culprit?  Bad installation by yours truly. Guess I muscled the tire onto the wheel without enough caressing. Live and learn, I guess.

He didn't have a tire in stock so he ordered one for me. Should come in tomorrow but with the holiday weekend, I may not get it back until next Tuesday.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:14:17 PM by azcycle »