Another R65 electrical question

[dewane]

I have a tendency to overexplain things to please bear with me.

OK, So I got this 1983 R65 last year. I replaced the coil with a Dyna one from Rick at Moto Elektrik.

After that, I had the gen light come on at like half intensity, and pulsing with the motor RPMs. I pulled the diode board and tested it - it seemed to be bad. So I got a new one of those too.

The first time I turned the key after installation, the gen light didn't turn on. Naturally I figured user error, so I checked all the wiring (disconnected negative lead before doing this). Now I've just been having weird problems - the gen light sometimes goes on when I turn on the ignition, sometimes not. I'm riding along and the gen light comes on for a while at about half-intensity, then it goes away. It's super annoying because it fits no pattern - sometimes at idle, sometimes acceleration, sometimes deceleration.

Any ideas?

FWIW somebody has added an aftermarket horn and they did a lousy job with the wiring under the tank. Short? If so, good times, man  

[Bob_Roller]

Welcome dewane !!

My first choice for this problem, would be worn slip ring brushes in the alternator .

If they get worn down too much, the spring that pushes them into contact with the slip rings can't apply enough pressure on the brushes, and they lose contact .

Take a look at them first to see how worn they are, if they are pretty well worn, cut up a small pieces of plastic, or other non-conducting material and place it between the snail shaped spring and the brush to see if it helps the problem .

If it does, you need to get new brushes installed .

New brushes are about .70 inches or 18 mm long .

Are you having any charging system problems like an under charged battery ?

[montmil]

Hi there, dewane

Not to worry... over explaining is far more preferable than saying, "I'm having electrical problems. So what should I do?"  Folks hereabouts can usually assist with some long distance problem analysis if there's plenty of shared information. Good on ya.

Rick Jones has brushes for our R65s. I recall I sent him five bucks. Sounds as if new brushes are in order for you.

After using a butane soldering torch to replace the brushes in my '83 R65, I read how to fit male spades onto the lugs using tiny machine screws. Crip a female spade onto the woven copper lead and you're golden. Easy brush replacement next time.

Ask Rick about his GEN Light Auxiliary Circuit http://www.motoelekt.com/genlightacc.htm
Should the bulb in the GEN indicator fail, the alternator will no longer charge the battery. Cheap insurance.

BTW, post up a pic of your scooter. We're Airhead Simple... we love photos!

Monte

[dewane]

Hey thanks! I did see the brushes were about .25 inches long, so I'll try that short-term fix and get some more brushes from Rick. I can already tell I'm gonna like this place - keep em on the road!

I'll have to check here more often, not only when I have a  problem. It's like that joke about the kid who was born and didn't speak for four years. His parents were really worried. One day he was having breakfast and he said "mom this oatmeal is cold!" After her joy, she asked him why he didn't speak for four years. He said "up until now, everything's been OK".

I attached a photo (I think) of a road trip I took earlier this year - went from Northern California to two Sierra passes (Sonora Pass and Tioga pass) and rode around the Eastern Sierra for a while.

My R65 has got a JC Whitney fairing, which helps when touring, but it's definitely made to ride, not to look at!

[Bob_Roller]

Those brushes have given their best, time to replace them .

I don't know if you have a generator, starter alternator repair shop near you, but if you do, they may have the brushes you need .

Unless you are purchasing something else from Motorrad Elektrik, the shipping cost may well be more than the cost of the brushes themselves .

[Bengt_Phorqs]

Howdy dewane,
Glad to know you have already achieved R65 satisfaction.  Lots of good stuff and great people here.  I'd like to see a snap of the front of that fairing and especially the rear mirrors.  Are those Napoleans or aftermarket?

[nhmaf]

It sounds like your brushes may be in need of replacing, but that wouldn't account for not getting the GEN light to come on initially when you turn the ignition key to "ON" (and before you press the starter button).   That sounds like a bad connection or corroded contact to me.   Be sure to check the terminals and clean the contacts on the wires which feed to the voltage regulator (which in turn, feeds the rotor.   If a bad connection is at the voltage regulator or rotor then no current path for the GEN lamp is present, and it will not light with the key first turned ON.  It will also cause intermittent operation while underway. That could also explain the intermittent nature of the other behavior (though marginal brushes would, too).  

Also, When you changed the diode board out, how did you reconnect the ground wires that go the the corner grounding points?    Did your bike have the rubber mounting posts with metal inserts holding the diode board up, or the solid metal variety?

I found on my bike (82) the original rubber posts with metal inserts.  I also noted that the original grounding wire kit that the factory or dealer installed had ring terminals which were too big to safely fit on the upper corners of the new Motorrad Elektric diode board without being in danger of shorting stuff out.   Did you run the new ground wires to a solid ground point on the engine bolt or back through to the starter mount?   A loose/poor ground connection on the diode board could also cause flakey operation while running.

[dewane]

Hey thanks for the tips everybody. My first impression was I knocked something loose when I changed out the coil, because that is when all this started to happen. And, the regulator is right near the coil. I've checked loose wires before but will check them again. There is some funky routing going on here.

For the board mounting points, mine is an '83 and has the solid mounting, with the bracket that offsets the board from the starter. I only saw the one ground to the diode board, the one running to the starter. I did see there were two ground mounting spade connectors on the board, one big and one small.

From looking at the old diode board, I think it just had the one grounding part. I mean the other, smaller spade connector was dirty and oxidized, like nothing had ever been there.

So check ground, try the alternator brush push-down, check wires. A step by step process.

It seemed like too much of a hassle to see where that ground wire went to - I think I'd have to remove the entire bracket that the diode board connects to, wouldn't I? To see the starter back there.

Re: the fairing: I don't have any pics but will start another thread sometime and show what's going on there. Those are Napoleon bar-end mirrors, with the grips hacked off on the ends to make them fit. I like the mirrors. I didn't do any of the mods, and the last guy almost never rode, so I'm doing all the debugging and sorting out.

[nhmaf]

To access the starter, it is best to remove that top flat cover (probably painted black) on your bike.  The wires feed through a narrow opening behind the diode board and it is just too hard to try to work through that tiny space.

If you had the solid mounts and the single large-ish ground wire going back then that sounds good - just be sure that it is tightly secured at both ends!

[dewane]

Hi all, thought I'd follow up on this. I got some electrical contact cleaner and pulled the tank again. Took every connection, pulled them apart, and sprayed some cleaner in there, checked all connections, and used some needlenosed pliers to tighten some loose spade connectors.

Looks like I fixed it! The gen light is nice and bright when I turn the key on, and it acts normally now.

Wrenching (for me anyway) teaches me patience and humility. Which is a good thing, I think. My head will never get too big from my mad mechanic skillz - I distinctly remember saying "what the &^%$ was that?" during the shakedown ride. If can just remember when I said that during the ride, I'd be able to find the battery holding strap that fell off   At least I have two BMW shops around here (Cal BMW and San Jose BMW) and those look to be cheap.

[montmil]

dewane,

Next time you're at the local FLAPS or a Radio Shack, pick up a small tube of dielectric grease. Then, when you pull apart an electrical connector, you may apply a light smear of grease to the metal components. Helps prevents corrosion and/or galvanic action on the connectors. Often cures blinky Gen lamps, too.

Far be it from me to even suggest you consider revisiting the now clean connectors and giving them a "spa treatment". 8-)

And while you're at the R'Shack, snag another small tube of heat sink paste. Your Ignition Control Unit (ICU) is mounted flush with an aluminum heat sink. Between the two should be a nice coating of the heat sink paste. Your initial inspection may reveal hard, cracked and ineffective paste. The material helps transfer thermal energy and will help keep your ignition system happy... and you, too.

Monte