Lubing Spline

[Crossrodes]

Hi folks.

Now that I'm back in Canada and restricted to the garage because of rain I am now taking the '79 R65 apart to lube the spline and check the drive shaft spring.  If possible I want to also check the oil seal at the rear of the engine casing.  I've got the swing-arm off and am about to tackle the transmission.  I read one write-up about lubing the spline and this person did not remove the transmission completely...he just moved it back far enough to get at the splines.

My questions are...

Is there any trick to removing the transmission? and will I be able to get at the rear engine seal without removing all the clutch mechanism and if I do have to remove the clutch are there special tools that I need?

I haven't removed the drive shaft from the swing-arm yet but I was wondering if I will need any kind of spring compressor tool to remove and replace the spring?

I did a search on this stuff and didn't come up with anything on this site.  Any information will be helpful.

[nhmaf]

Although this process in the wiki is done with an 1982, the general procedure with a 1979 is quite similar.  The process goes over removing the transmission.  The 1979 clutch assembly is also different in appearance, but it is also kinda similar as far as how it all goes together.

http://www.suraklyn.com/r65_wiki/wikka.php?wakka=ReplaceClutch

If you need to replace the rear main seal, it is often advised to replace the oil pump cover seal at the same time.  But, if the seals aren't leaking I probably wouldn't touch them.   To access both these seals, one has to remove not only the clutch assembly, but also the engine flywheel.   Before removing the flywheel, one MUST first block the crank from moving forward by removing the front cover of the engine (BUT FIRST DISCONNECT THE BATTERY CABLES BEFORE REMOVING front cover!).  To block the crank, most people use a cut off section of Allen key inserted into the front of the alternator center bolt, and then gently screwing the front cover back on  until it stops against the key - don't try to crank the front cover fully on - you just want it to be sure to hold against the possibility of the crankshaft/rotor sliding forward a few millimeters and dislodging a critical washer inside the engine case.   IF you don't have the means to cut off an Allen key, some people find a nylon bolt/screw of sufficient diameter that it will tightly fit into the front hold in the alternator rotor bolt and cut it to length - I think something like 3/4" or 1" is about the right length.  To remove the clutch assembly, you need some extra 6mm machine cap screws that are ~ 1.5 inches long to ease the clutch apart and ease it back together - more details are in my wiki article.

[fermin]

Heres another article with photographs documenting the procedure. Im about to tackle this job next weekend.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/spline/

[Crossrodes]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  I think I'll have to set my laptop up in the garage to follow the procedures.

I don't know if I'll have to take the clutch apart...hopefully not.  I'll keep you posted .

[Patrick_Krivacka]

the link fermin posted is the one I followed. pretty straight forward procedure.

[nhmaf]

I personally rather consider the slide it back almost an inch method to be seriosuly cutting corners, but YMMV.  You can't see inside to see the state of the clutch disk splines - only the transmission input shaft splines, and you cannot see well enough to determine if there is a leaking rear man seal or oil pump cover seal .  It is more work though, but I'd rather have more information and be able to do a more thorough job even if it takes an extra hour or two every couple years.   A' chacun son gout'!

[Patrick_Krivacka]

Nhmaf, you wrote 'ymmv', about the 'one inch' method. the problem with that is I have very little mileage! So very little experience. Now you've got me worried.

[Bob_Roller]

The first time you perform this on a newly acquired bike, your best bet, is to remove the transmission from the bike, clean everything off real good, take a good look at the splines on the transmission, and clutch, as well as the input shaft seal on the transmission .

Once you know what condition the parts are in, then you can make a determination, as to whether you need to go any further or not .

Once it's done this way, you've probably got 5 years before you need to go back in there and perform it again .

[Patrick_Krivacka]

crap. should I go back in? I have a new problem that I'll post up. maybe if my bike requires a lot of down time I'll redo it.

[nhmaf]

Well, at least you've got some lube on the splines, so that was a very good thing.   If you've had this bike for quite awhile and have already taken the transmission off/checked clutch assembly/etc. as part of  your maintenance schedule within the past few years then this slide-back method is probably OK.  But if you don't know the "pedigree" of the beast and how well things have been maintained by the previous owners, I know that I'd prefer to check things out more thoroughly rather than getting stranded on the road (Again!).

[Rob Valdez 79 R65]

If you are experiencing shifting problems that might be associated with dry splines, by all means pull the transmission.

That way you can also get that little dab (not too much!) on the end of the push-rod.


I HATE that webbikeworld article.  That one article has made me question everything they put out.

[Patrick_Krivacka]

Dang. i guess I should suck it up and go back in. Sorry, I'm starting to feel like I'm hi-jacking this thread. I'll shut up now.

[fermin]

I was getting ready for the spline lube job on the '82 R65 when upon removing the clutch lever mechanism and piston ball bearings started to fall out.  The plastic cup had a small tear and the grunge inside the bearing/cup/piston was bad and copious.  The spring was broken, so this explained my 'soft clutch' described in a previous post. I have not been able to remove anything else from the transmission, but there may be parts of the former bearing remaining inside.
So now looking at a tranny removal.
Should I replace the piston?. Its a little rusty but inside part moves OK.  Getting ready to order parts and the new cup has a bearing incorporated, any difference between the new and old model?

[Bob_Roller]

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the damaged parts .

A little rust, can be cleaned up .

You don't have to remove the transmission from the bike if you don't want to, to get the clutch rod out, you can remove the swing arm, and you have all the room you need to remove and replace it .

But if the transmission input spline, and the mating clutch splines have not been lubed by you, good time to get it done .


From the looks of the old parts, they were not lubricated , probably led to an early demise of these parts .

At the very least, put transmission gear oil on the parts before reassembly .

Some owners apply spline lube grease to the parts as well .

[fermin]

Well, I was concerned that there may be some rusted pieces back there in the tranny with no room to access and clean if I just separate it enough to lube the splines. Can I spray at will with a brake cleaner/WD40 or similar prior to separation and then blow dry?