Slowly emerging hard start problem on 1983 R65

[fmriguy]

Hi all,

I'm a first time BMW owner and love my bike.  I actually inherited it from a family friend in 2001 whose brother had it stored in a storage unit since he bought it new in 1983/4.  When I first got my hands on it, it had just over 600 miles!  Over the last 9 years it has been a great bike (after I cleaned out the mouse in the air filter housing and did some minor oil and seal changes) and I've put a few thousand miles on it.

With that said, I hate to start off with a first post on a mechanical problem rather than a great insight to share, but here goes.  Over the last year, my 1983 R65 has become a bit finicky to start.  

Basically, when starting, I'll get one or two turnovers before the engine will get stuck and the starter will be unable to turn the engine.  The ONLY way I've been able to get it started after that is to take it off the stand, put it in 1st or 2nd gear, release the clutch and rock forward a bit to manually turn the engine over a half crank or so.  I'll usually get a repeat of the bad first start, but sometimes it will start right up (sometimes with an accompanying squeal).

This problem first started about a year ago occasionally, but now it occurs about 95% of the time.  Is it possible that it somehow gets "stuck" at TDC and the starter can't manage to get it started again?  Any ideas/suggestions would be much appreciated.

I look forward to contributing to this great community, thanks in advance!  Also, just a few pics to share of my baby.

[Edit: for some reason the pics wouldn't post, perhaps because it's my first post...I'll try again later]

[Bob_Roller]

Welcome aboard Tyler !!!

A few questions about your bike, first, any idea how old the battery is ?

Is it a serviceable type battery, with removable caps for each cell ?

If it is a serviceable battery, how high is the electrolyte (fluid level) in each cell ?

How do the battery cable connections look,  clean and tight, or corroded with a fuzzy white deposit ?

The squealing sound, may be a starter, that has had the lubricants dry out, and the starter is 'dragging' due to lack of lubrication .

[fmriguy]

Thanks for the quick reply.  To answer your questions:

Battery is a sealed Odyssey battery, only about 1.5-2 years old.  I just recently took it out of storage, cleaned up the battery terminals (they were already quite clean actually) and tightened up the connections.  Also, I charged up the battery before installing.

Your idea on the starter sounds like it might be it.  The funny thing is that it only squeals for a split second AFTER the bike actually gets going.  It's not as if the starter is squealing throughout the starting process, there is just a squeal for the last moment after the engine successfully starts.

It's very odd, the first revolution or so when attempting to start sounds as if there is plenty of juice getting to the starter and it is working admirably, then "click" the engine just doesn't want to budge.  Once this has happened no amount of wiggling or engaging the ignition switch does anything.  I have to manually crank the engine by putting it in gear before it will turn over again.

[Edit: added some pics]

[nhmaf]

This sounds alot like a starter&bendix that need to be cleaned and re-lubed, to me.   As the grease that was once in the starter gear mechansim turns to hard putty, it no longer lubricates things like it should and increases friction, as Bob indicated,  The gunk can also make the gears stick and not allow the bendix mechanism to release when the engine starts to turn faster than the starter - which is what the bendix is supposed to do - the overrunning of the starter motor/sticking of the bendix/solenoid are what is causing the squeal before they finally are able to part company with the flywheel.   Time to get that starter cover off and do some cleaning/maintenance - chances are it probably has never been done before on this bike, and it is well past due.

P.S.  BEFORE YOU PULL THE STARTER COVER OFF and start messing about inside, BE SURE TO disconnect the cables from the battery so that you don't accidentally cause a short circuit and cause other collateral damage.

[fmriguy]

Thanks to both of you.  I'll pull out the good old Clymer this weekend and try disassembling and lubing the starter.  What lubricant would you recommend?

Also, any idea why putting it in gear and pushing it forward a bit would sometimes get it to start or is that just a red herring?

[nhmaf]

It may be a red herring, or it may be that the action/rocking of the flywheel helps to dislodge whatever is jamming up the gear mechanism on the starter.   These starters can produce almost 1 BHP but tolerances can be tight and if they get bound up, they just suck alot of battery current and go nowhere.  The solenoid's spring has to pull the engaging lever back, and if things are gummy the spring may not fully retract the arm.   Also, if the electrical connections under there are corroded/dirty,e tc that will impede the flow of electrical current and prevent the motor from spinning at full torque/speed.   It may also just be that you happen to rotate the engine so that it is past the compression stroke, giving the starter motor a bit more of a running start before it encounters the higher resistance compression stroke again.  

[Bob_Roller]

When you get around to working on the starter, there is a write-up in our R65 Technical FAQ/Procedure section on servicing a starter.

As far as a lubricant, I think any high drip point ( high melting point), non-conductive grease would work .

[Ed Miller]

That isn't regular maintenance, is it?  My R65 has about 70,000 miles on it and I've never messed with the starter.  

[Bob_Roller]

I went through the starter on the '81 R65, about 5 years ago, I did the voltage drop test, and it failed, the same time that I was having hard cold starting issues .

It was mentioned on Boxerworks, a dry starter can draw too much power from the battery, possibly causing the ignition system to operate with lower than optimal voltage, creating a weak spark .

I just serviced the starter on the '84 LS, and it was completely devoid of any lubricant .

[fmriguy]

Just an update, this weekend I had some time set aside to work on the starter and just decided to take it for a quick ride to Home Depot beforehand.  After getting it started, I tried to put her into gear and lurched forward and killed the engine.  Being more careful the next time, I noticed that I couldn't put it into gear without horrible grinding even when the clutch was fully pulled.  Clutch cable is fine and I can see it move the clutch arm a good distance, so it looks like I have a stuck clutch.

Luckily, I found this thread:
http://www.bmwr65.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1268927337/6#6

So now I have 2 things to fix...    Ah well, it makes you appreciate it more when it's actually running, right?