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Author Topic: Still no starting.  (Read 2712 times)

Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 07:42:05 AM »
Timing is probably the issue here, and the first time can be a bit frustrating.  Take a deep breath and read the instructions several times.  The little guy wants to run for you, just be patient and you will get the timing right.  What spark plugs are you using and are they fresh?  Heat range can make a difference if it's too cold, or if the plugs have been fouled.
Bengt Phorqs, Jake R90/6, R80/7, R1200RTw, Moto Guzzi California EV , Triumph TR250W, Yamaha TY250A Trials, Suzuki DR650

Offline BooG

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 07:53:12 AM »
Plugs are BP6ES NGK, and have changed to the NGK caps also.
Should the lighting clip go on the condenser spade terminal and the other side to ground (fin)?
BMW R65 1980.
Vespa Sprint Veloce 1971
BMW K75S 1987



Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 08:07:42 AM »
Without consulting my Haynes manual, I believe that is correct.  I used a test light, attached one end to the condenser,  and put the bike in gear (on the centerstand of course).  Touch the other end of the test light probe to a good ground as you rotate the back wheel in the forward direction.  When the test light comes on look and see where the timing marks are.  

Here's where my memory serves so consult the directions.  The marks should be on either the OT, or the S - the manual will tell you which is correct.  If you can't see any mark then you must adjust the points or the bean can.

Sorry to be so vague but at my advanced age I always keep the book handy to make sure I'm doing it correctly.
Bengt Phorqs, Jake R90/6, R80/7, R1200RTw, Moto Guzzi California EV , Triumph TR250W, Yamaha TY250A Trials, Suzuki DR650

Offline BooG

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 09:33:58 AM »
Here is the bit I don't get. Setting the static timing. So, points are gapped at .40, TDC line in timing window. Now, at TDC, the test light should light up to show that the points have opened. If not, then the beancan can be adjusted to deal with this. However, at TDC, my points have not even opened, and I cannot adjust them so that they do (at the beancan). Interesting....
Obviously the engine will not fire if the spark is in the wrong place. If I squirt some carb cleaner in and turn over, it coughs. This implies that the compression is ok(?). I can feel pulsing at the exhaust pipes. The cylinders are wet inside, as are the plugs. So this could be it.
BMW R65 1980.
Vespa Sprint Veloce 1971
BMW K75S 1987



Online Barry

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 11:12:47 AM »
Sorry Boo I hadn't seen your post on timing.

You can do quite an accurate static timing check. I disconnect the wire from the Bean can and connect an ohm meter between the bean can spade and earth (effectively across the points). With an allen key in the alternator bolt wind the engine VERY SLOWLY towards the OT mark or TDC. The OHM meter should indicate when the points open and this should coincide with the S mark which is 6 Deg BTDC.

Your method with the bulb should work just the same. You will need the ignition on. The bulb will light when the points open and the points must be opening or you wouldn't be getting a spark.  From memory the points gap should be .016" It's not critical 1 or 2 thou either side of this. 0.4 mm = .016"

I know rotating the rear wheel in gear is the recommended method but I find it near impossible to do an accurate check that way. If done very slowly and carefully with the plugs out I see no harm in in using the alternator bolt to rotate the engine.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 11:39:24 AM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline Lucky_Lou

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 11:36:27 AM »
+1 with Barry I did mine static with a Ohm meter it seems spot on runs as sweet as a nut.
Lou
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Offline BooG

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 01:56:20 PM »
Ah! Ok then....so the TDC (OT line) on my flywheel dosen't correspond to  
the widest section of the points cam...indeed, its only just as the points separate...6 degrees before TDC. So you can't set the points at TDC.
So assuming this is done, and the other two variables are in place, (compression and fuel/air mix), then I should at least get the engine coughing. The compression seems OK, so maybe its back to the carbs then??!!
My timing marks are the Line...v diff to make out the OT inscription...got my little finger stuck trying to clean it! The recessed circle below it, and the embedded sphere an inch or so below that. If I'm setting the points, which circle should be in the viewing window?
BMW R65 1980.
Vespa Sprint Veloce 1971
BMW K75S 1987



Online Barry

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 03:10:06 PM »
This is what you should see just as the points open The S mark aligned with the notch on the window edge which in my case is just below the middle of the window. The line on the flywheel at the top of the window is the lower part of the OT Mark

BTW I forgot to mention if you are using the bulb test method with the ignition on don't leave it on more than a minute or two as the coil will overheat.  That's why I prefer to  use an ohm meter.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 03:40:02 PM by bhodgson »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline BooG

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Re: Still no starting.
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 03:46:27 PM »
Great shot! Thanks! My timing marks are not that clear, but I can make out what's what.
BMW R65 1980.
Vespa Sprint Veloce 1971
BMW K75S 1987