The cat is out of the bag

[Tony Smith]

When I joined my local bike restorers club the R65 used to drive me crazy, you see many of our rides involve heading up the local ranges, usually the Gllies, think of "tail of the dragon" only more corners.

Anyway, in its initial guise afterf I rebuilt it the R65 handled well, stopped OK, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

My corner speeds were OK, but the climb between corners meant that I would get passed. It was particularly irksome to be passedc by a couple of CB750s whose riders would sail ast me on the straights and then hold me up through the next corner.

Something had to be done.

I already had a pair of heavily modified cylinder heads,these were fitted along with a camshaft developed by an Australian BMW guru who unfortunately passed before he was sufficiently happy with thecam to put it into production. The one I bought was to have been the final test article but his death stopped development, i bought the cam I have at the clearing auction.

Better, but those pesky CB750s were still giving me a hard time.

Enter the 860cc kit

I was careful to only use as much of the new performance as I needed to and I was very vaguje about what additional modifications had been done.

Anyway, I now have the wood on CB750s, GS750s, XS&XJ750s, KZ750s it has been pleasant.....

But the time has come to fess up.

I am taking the "R65" to our next meeting, i wonder how long it will be before anyone notices?

[georgesgiralt]

Hello Tony,
A long time ago, a friend of mine proposed a ride to Andorra from Toulouse France where we live. It was supposed to be 3 of us, he on a Honda and me and the missus on the R65 with RT fairing.
The morning of the ride the Honda refused to start because of a fried ICU (he was lucky, the bike get him home from work the previous day...) so he took the Yamaha 125 DTMX he used as a workhorse.
Of course in the flat portion of the road I had to restrain me a bit in order not to loose him. To the great satisfaction of the missus because she was somewhat afraid of the speed. But comes the first twistie and the situation change. I reduce speed a bit to calm the missus but my friend still use full power and never turn the throttle grip back. Come a set of Japanese sport motorbikes with pilot from Germany. Of course they pass us like bullets. But at the first corner the DTMX passes them, one using the internal part of the curve, the other the outside and so on. They took over on the strait part between curves and my friend passes them at every curve. As the road becomes more and more curvy, he gets more advance and cross the border first. HE then stop to wait for me. And he said that the German pilots did not even look at him when passing away....
So the bike and it's power is only a little part on the equation. The pilot is everything. This guy would have been a terrific champion if he had had the chance to live near a racing circuit and had some money....
My wife was happy that I did not stress her and I was happy to have run the whole road smoothly and comfortably, thanks to the BMW... And of course enjoyed the whole show.... We still laugh about these guys we never saw again....

[Bob_Roller]

Just found this on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNI1USPepxI

[Tony Smith]

For those yet to experience a bike with the 860cc kit you are missing out.

Top speed is increased a little but I have to say my wife's R65 fitted with a 87 R80 engine is significantly faster.

But outright top speed is not what the 860 kit is about.

What you get for your $$s (lots of them sadly) is for an airhead, mind blowing mid range.

[georgesgiralt]

Ah ! Tony, I do not doubt of the effectiveness of the kit. But in France it will make my bike totally illegal and will force me into a painstaking and quite impossible certification process...
So, given that and the price, I'll pass...... 

[Tony Smith]

George

Out of curiousity, just how often do the French police pull engines down to capacity check them?

I think that you real risk is negligible to non-existent.

Technically my R65 modifications, including but not limited to, the 860 kits, K100 front end, K100 front wheel, modified camshaft and staintune exhaust system are all illegal as they have not had engineering reports, inspections etc.

Probably the biggest "crime" is that the R65 model has blanket LAMS approval - this is a horsepower/weight based formula that allows larger, low powered bikes to be ridden by inexperienced riders.

In addition to the horsepower/weight formula there is a blanket limit of 700cc after which LAMS approval is no longer possible.

BUT, like all systems administered by public servants, there are problems.

My wife's R65 is legally registered as an 800cc bike is still LAMS approved according to its registration papers.

My 1990 Kawasaki KLE500 is also LAMS approved based on the assessment of a 2002 model.

The thing is that the 2002 model has 36hp and therefore passes the mass/power equation. My 1990 model that did not have to meet Euro emission compliance has 48hp and fails the mass/HP equation. Yet it also is LAMS approved on its registration papers.

All things considered I am quite comfortable with my lawbreaking. I have never heard of the Police/registration authorities pulling down an engine to capacity check it.

[georgesgiralt]

Tony, you are right about LEO * but we are transitioning to MOT test in France. And first check is that engine is correct size for the bike.... So without MOT label on the bike, one can't ride it (and has trouble insuring it).
In Germany, if you put an approved kit on an approved bike, and provide the papers to the controller, your bike is legal and legit... In France I would have to pay for the whole certification process for the whole bike to the actual standards at the moment of certification.... Quite impossible to met Euro 5 emission standard with an R65 for example. And I can't go to Germany, request the papers there and come back to France because I will have to request BMW for a certificate proving the bike was build like that... We will see a lot of café racers or bobbers for sale cheap when the MOT is enforced....


* : In my youth, I was followed and stopped by motorcycle LEO one day. They told me I had proper trajectory on the road but too slow a pace .... (do you ride at full power with two motorcycle agents following you ? I don't). I told them that the speed limitation was adhered to and I was careful not to break the law on open roads  but I was able to ride fast. They looked at the footrest and smiled. They told me I was not riding fast. And they showed me theirs foot pegs . ... They where half destroyed from contact with the ground and the silencers were also marked. That is riding fast said the LEO .....

[dogshome]

It surprises me that the R80 is significantly faster. My 860 is happiest between 3,000 and 6,000 but will rev out on the rare occasion I subject her to that. Alleged BHPs are similar. Mine also pulls 33:11 gearing very happily solo. My friend has had airheads for a while and has been known to cruise on the red line on an R80 in the past. Suggesting a well sorted motor and favourable gearbox ratio - as well as 'ludicrous speed' (Dark Helmet, Space Balls).

I don't suppose this judgement is based on your wife riding the 80 and you the 860? My wife's air rifle is always better than mine when at the fair plinking for teddy bears. Even when we swap rifles.....     


Did you tear the 800 down to find if it was not actually 1,000? 

[Tony Smith]

Dogshome

The wife's bike is definitely 800cc.
It does not accelerate as hard as the 860, but it winds up to a higher speed.
I suspect this is for two reasons.

Firstly when I put the 860 on a dyno I noted it was a bit lean at or near WOT, but not enough for me to bother doing anything about it as my interest in how fast its terminal speed is was fleeting.

Secondly, her engine is a 1987 R80 and it has always run very sweetly and in fact is thhe second smoothest airhead I have ever ridden (the 860 is smoother, but it had pistons and rods balanced by me and the crank sent out with the clutch pack fitted for balancing.

[dogshome]

I must admit, I don't think I've had my bike WOT in the top part of the rev counter. I've not had that very lean 'hoovering' noise or bogging sensation but never plug chopped it or felt the need to go on a dyno either. I am on Kehan mufflers (that look like the originals) and standard air filter which may be the difference? i.e. running standard inlet and exhaust.