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Author Topic: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?  (Read 1319 times)

Offline gregb

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Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« on: January 28, 2022, 11:57:11 PM »
Hi all. I have overhauled the carbs on my bike, replacing all rubbers and gaskets. Got it idling nicely and running well. The only thing I can complain about (when I look for hard for things to complain about) is some unevenness and vibration at higher revs - sometimes. Nothing too bad but if I fit vacuum gauges, the left and right behave differently as revs increase; ie the vacuums doesn't really follow closely.

The carbs have no leaks, including the tops, they are synched fine at idle and slightly above, with cables operating together off idle. The cylinder compressions are near identical, valves are adjusted.

There is only one thing that I'm thinking just now - diaphragms. The slides and bores are ok and if I lift the slides they seem to drop at the same rate. But the aftermarket diaphragms I have seem to be of much thicker and stiffer rubber than I would expect. I got those because genuine BMW are just crazy money here (more than 6x the price). But is it possible they might behave differently with vacuum if they are stiffer? Appreciate any experience you may have with these.  Greg
Adelaide, Australia. 1985 R65

Offline georgesgiralt

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2022, 03:40:24 AM »
Hello Gregb,
I live in France, so consider my comments accordingly.
Common wisdom is that pattern diaphragms are said to be no good on Bing carbs. Of course, I can't vouch for your particular brand of diaphragms but...
OEM are very supple and very thin. And we do not change them often (unless they are pierced or torn off by improper installation) so price is not a very big concern.
Bing has a kit for a small price containing all the rubber and offer the diaphragms extra (they depend on the size of the carb, O-Rings do not).
So IMHO, you would be better install OEM rubber and (and this is important) sync the carbs also at high revs (3000 RPM for example).
Last but not least, R65 engines have a tendency to vibrate at around 4000 RPM even if properly tuned. This can be mitigated by trying different torque on the engine mount nuts but won't make this disappear.
Enjoy your ride !

Offline gregb

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2022, 05:48:22 AM »
Hi. Thanks for your reply. If it is common wisdom that pattern diaphragms are no good, then you have answered my question Sir. I shall rob my bank and get genuine. Hopefully that will sort it.

Thanks also for your other advice.

I actually love riding this bike and take it out now in preference to more exotic machinery. Not sure why - it just seems to fit. It won't win any races but it puts a smile on my dial. Cheers
Adelaide, Australia. 1985 R65

Offline Barry

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2022, 06:31:50 AM »
The after market diaphragms do get mixed reviews, some say they are OK and other say they cause problems. While Bing diaphragms are better I wouldn't automatically assume they will cure your problem of high rev vacuum balance unless one of your diaphragms is stiffer than the other. It's more likely the inbalance is engine related but You could try swapping the diaphragms over just to see if it makes any difference.  I think you are correct to adjust the throttle cables at lowish revs as that's when they are most sensitive. 

Have you tried standing behind the bike and observing if the carb slides lift together when someone revs the engine.

There is one other check you could make which is vacuum related.  There is a small hole in the bottom of the slides which communicates venturi vacuum to the top of the diaphragm and so is responsible for the slides lifting. Make sure the holes face towards the butterflies on both carbs as if one them faces the other way it will get a different vacuum signal.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 06:38:08 AM by Barry »
Barry Cheshire, England 79 R45

Offline gregb

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2022, 03:41:41 PM »
Thanks Barry. The holes are clear and slide orientation is right. But swapping the diaphragms and watching vacuums is a good idea so will give that a try.
Adelaide, Australia. 1985 R65

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2022, 08:28:52 PM »
It has been my observation over the years that problems attributed to aftermarket diaphragms seem to vanish when OEM ones are fitted AND the more careful rebuild to fit them cures the problem that caused the poor running in the first place.

Yes the non-genuine diaphragms tend to be thicker than genuine - so what?

Vacuum is a powerful thing and the only difference a slightly less supple diaphragm will do is slow the carburettor's reaction to a change in vacuum by a small fraction of a second.

Read the above sentence again - it is important.

Even if there is a difference in the suppleness of a pair of diaphragms they will still ultimately rise of fall the same amount, only the time to do so will vary, by an even smaller fraction of a second than discussed above.

Why do I say they will still rise or fall the same amount? Flex a diaphragm in your fingers and feel how little resistance it has. Then compare that to the power available both by vacuum and in the spring. The diaphragm component is as irrelevant as the structural strength of a chicken egg about to be run over by a road roller.

Now in one sense I may not know what I am talking about, you see since about 1980 when I replaced my first Bing diaphragms (40mm Bings to which I fitted Stromberg diaphragms) I have NEVER fitted a genuine diaphragm.

Yet strangely my BMWs have always run correctly.

Worldwide are only one potential problem. The carbon that builds up on a slide can cause hesitancy in slide movement. I have spent a lot of time with carb cleaner and polish ensuring that slides move with as little resistance as possible.

In tuning carbs I balance at 3000rpm and leave sufficient slack in the cables so that idle can be set up entirely separately.

If there is a big vacuum discrepancy off idle I spend the time to find out why, without immediately blaming diaphragms.

On my R65 one carb is slower to react to a snapped open throttle than the other, albeit that they equalize in a fraction of a second

I can see it on the carb sticks, but I can't feel it when riding - so I ignore the hell out of it :-)

The cause by the way is that one slide is ever so slightly outfit round (measured with a micrometre) and it leaks vacuum.


For what it is worth, other potential causes include inlet trumpet leaks, uneven valve sealing, incorrectly ground cam lobes (more prevalent than you think - they were churned out by machine and assembled by unskilled guest workers after all).

There are lots of other things to worry about than poor bloody diaphragms
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Kurt V.

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Re: Aftermarket carb diaphragms - any good?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2022, 08:12:14 PM »
I just rebuilt the carbs on my 1983 LS using rebuild kits I bought off of Amazon. Everything is working fine!
Kurt V
1983 R65LS
1965 R60/2
1973 Norton 850 Commando
Various other motorcycles.