New owner questions

[quietglow]

Hello all,

I just got back from picking up a 1983 R65 and have a few questions (that I am sure will continue to grow in number). The weather sadly prevented riding it the whole 450mi route home, but I did manage to ride ~100mi of it between thunderstorms. The bike was owned for many years by a gent who is a pretty ace mechanic, and it appears (to me anyway) very well sorted. 60k mi on the odometer. Resprayed 10ish years ago with my fav BMW paint color (Polaris) to match the Quicksilver Vetter fairing. I am getting back to riding after more than 20 years away. So my initial questions:

1. On the way back we trailered the bike through really massive thunderstorms on an open trailer. This morning I noticed a pretty good bit of condensation in the speedometer. It was gone by this afternoon, but I wonder if I ought to be concerned both about the water that got in and future water ingress.
2. Is either the Haynes or Clymer manual superior to the other? Also, is the shop manual a good idea? I got the bike to have a tinkering project and intend to do my own work as much as I can.
3. The transmission reminds me of both BMW 2002s I've owned. Downshifting into 2nd and 1st requires double clutching/a blip of the throttle to prevent grinding. Is this normal?

I think that's it for now. Many thanks!

[Bob_Roller]

Welcome to the site Quietglow !!

Not uncommon to get condensation inside the indicators, my '81 has done it for the 40 years I've had it .
AS far as the shifting, it may be a case of getting familiar with it .
Any idea when the last transmission input spline lube was done ??

[dogshome]

Hiya, looks nice 

RE shifting, Preloading the pedal and then putting my concentration on the clutch lever works best for me. I still get the occasional rattly crunch or false neutral but it depends on me! If I pull in clutch, then operate foot, it's always horrible. If I concentrate on foot (even with pre-load) It's generally horrible. I think this is the key.

Pre-load with foot, concentrate on clutch and move foot positively. I'm not saying stamp on it, but if you try and be cautious and don't aim for a full range of motion then it will spit you out. Changing down before crawling speed helps too.

Clutch adjustment is fairly critical, lever only has to move a few mm gap above the hinge point. Gearbox oil makes some slight difference, GL5 75/80 straight gear (not gearbox) oil as per manual does work best. Synthetics and 140X or GL5 gearbox oils (for cars with synchros) don't work as well. Cold weather (5C or less) makes that first change down to second more troublesome.

Preload technique is the main factor for me. I am generally the problem if it doesn't change nicely 


Analogy: hand feeding my male greyhound a tripe stick. Give pre-indication (dog can see treat in hand, can also see bit he shouldn't bite), be clear (put treat in front of dog with hand in one place and treat obviously in another) and positive (don't change your mind or stop half way). Still the proud owner of 8 fingers and two thumbs 

[quietglow]

Okay, if the gearbox is of the sort that requires a little technique, I am 100% with it. I was already working on a methodology to get those downshifts quiet. The throttle blip and then shift seemed to work pretty well. A year from now I probably won't even notice that I am doing it.

[quietglow]

Here's another question. At cold start, there's significantly more valve noise from one side than there is the other (left side is noisier). This evens out after maybe 20min of running. Or maybe it's not valve noise? Here's a video that illustrates the difference:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gn9LwdEoitnggSXx8

[Bob_Roller]

Check valve clearance on a cold engine and see what you have .
Check the rocker arm end play as well if it's excessive, there are shims available to adjust this .

I just noticed you're the Chicago area, lived in the southwest suburbs for 37 years, Burbank .

[Barry]

3. The transmission reminds me of both BMW 2002s I've owned. Downshifting into 2nd and 1st requires double clutching/a blip of the throttle to prevent grinding. Is this normal?

The ratio gaps between the lower gears are the biggest so are bound to be a bit more of a challenge even when everything is perfect. A blip of the throttle is essential as there is no synchro on a motorcycle so an increase in revs is the only way to match the speed of the moving parts when changing down.  1st gear is easily solved by not using it on the way down. If the bike is still moving I much prefer 2nd even at walking pace and will only change into 1st after the bike comes to a stop.  The other aspect of an airhead gearbox that makes it more of a challenge is it operates at engine speed unlike most motorcycles that have a primary reduction before the gearbox.  That said you'll get used to it. I honestly don't think about gear changing any more and it is not an irritable aspect of riding the bike.  I sometimes think the "right of passage" assigned to airhead gear changing is overdone,  On the older bikes it was more of a problem because they had a very heavy flywheel but by 83 the flywheel had been made vastly lighter and there were additional dampers in the system so the gear change improved.

Besides actual clearances another thing that impacts on valve noise is rocker arm end float so check that when you check the clearances.  There should be hardly any perceptible end float, only enough to see the oil film move.  The spec is less than 1 thou.

[quietglow]

The other aspect of an airhead gearbox that makes it more of a challenge is it operates at engine speed unlike most motorcycles that have a primary reduction before the gearbox. 

Ahh! I didn't know that, and that totally makes sense. I have already adopted the "only shift down to 2nd" and the throttle blip really does solve the issue. I just went for a ride and can already feel it becoming muscle memory.

[quietglow]

I just noticed you're the Chicago area, lived in the southwest suburbs for 37 years, Burbank .

Small world! I am actually in Pullman (115th St) so not too far from Burbank. We'll see how far into the year we can ride this year. Hopefully it'll be as mild as last year was.

[dogshome]

Ahh! I didn't know that, and that totally makes sense. I have already adopted the "only shift down to 2nd" and the throttle blip really does solve the issue. I just went for a ride and can already feel it becoming muscle memory.

The blonde / hunk on the pavement (as per your preference) or Volvo driver will distract you and cause a crunch! to get you refocused occasionally though 

[Burt]

The Haynes manual being British assumes you have at least a few mechanical skills if not basic engineering know how.  The Clymer manual on the other hand is made for dummies.  This is probably the best way to describe the differences. 

The factory or shop manual is quite dated and will show you photos along with the steps and is designed for factory trained personnel.  Although it has stuff the others do not have there is an assumption of a knowledge of basic engineering principles so there may appear to be gaps in procedures.  These were usually designed when the moto came out for sale so will not have updates or improvements such as the latest version of the others.  The updates will be in the service bulletins supplied from BMW. 

This is my interpretation of BMW manuals over F, K & R series, so it does help if you have all three.  Personally I prefer the Haynes but then again I trained as an aircraft engineer. 

I hope this helps and by the way that is a nice looking moto. 

[Bob_Roller]

I purchased a factory BMW manual when I bought the bike in '81 .
I would not recommend it as mentioned, it assumes you are a factory trained mechanic, a lot of information that is needed by a person unfamiliar with BMW's is simply not there .
I'm an aircraft mechanic for an airline, I had military and civilian helicopter maintenance experience and a few years on commercial jet aircraft and got through most things without too much pain .

[georgesgiralt]

Burt,
The R65 BMW shop manual was updated, at least until 1983. It was sold as updatable because the BMW shops were entitled to get updates.
So they played fun by removing page XX/yy and inserting page KK/zz1, 2 and 3 after page WW/za1.......
I bought mine in ~1984 and it came as a couple of binding folders, and stack of pages : one being the original 79 version, the other the 81 update and some, thinner being the updates.
Took me a whole day to assemble and "see the logic"....
It is easy to see if cone has been updated. Some updates where printed on blue paper some on orange paper...
But I concur, it is of little use if you are not a good mechanic and have a good knowledge of BMW bikes of that era.
It is an invaluable reference, though and my allow to reconstruct a bike given the technical information in it.

I own the Clymer, the Haynes and a French "Revue Technique Moto". The one I use the most often is the the French one as it is aimed at the casual mechanic, but  I open them very very rarely these days as I know my bike in every bit .... (bought it new in 1984 and rode it since). Keep in mind that it is said that there are mistakes in the Clymer. So ask here if in doubt.

[Burt]

Thanks George, 

My version of the factory manual came from the local BMW Club copy which I photocopied for myself.  It would be one of the earlier ones and was already in A4 format.  However I was given a K series one complete which in itself is a smaller A5 size(?). 

One good thing about the factory manual is that it is easy to correlate how it and the fiche are structured which makes it easier to go directly to the correct chapter.  I mention this because in my early years using various aircraft manufacturer manuals, at times I used to tear my hair out trying to locate specific tasks and components. 

[Bob_Roller]

Burt, didn't the manuals use the ATA 100 Spec format

https://aviationforaviators.com/2021/02/04/ata-100-aeronautical-maintenance-documentation/