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Author Topic: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!  (Read 6231 times)

Offline R80rider

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R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« on: April 19, 2008, 11:09:38 AM »
Hello all!  

So I am encountering a problem with my 1986 R80RT and need your help.  There is a bit of background here that may be important, so please forgive the extended length of this post.

Last weekend, I took a trip from San Diego to the AHRMA Corsa Classica at Willow Springs Raceway in Rosamond, CA.

On the way up, I noticed the voltmeter had dropped into the red, so I pulled the cycle off and sure enough the battery was drained.  

After pulling the tank and pushing on all the relays, connectors and such and also removing and cleaning the battery cable connections, it became apparent that this was not going to be a roadside repair.

As luck would have it, there was a BMW dealer (Irv's) in Orange, CA about 35 miles away, so I reassembled the cycle, push started and rode it over to them.

They were extremely accommodating and took the cycle right into a service bay.  Within 20 minutes, the diagnosis was a failed alternator rotor.  Again, with luck on my side, they had one in stock and soon the mechanic was taking my R80 for a test ride.

Shortly after his return, the service representative approached me and said the charging system was fixed, but the mechanic was not happy with the cycles performance.  She went on to say that he thought one or both of the carburetor diaphragms was ruptured.  Moreover, they were willing to replace the diaphragms for just the cost of the parts as I still had time remaining on my initial one-hour of labor.  

The suited me fine and I authorized the repair.

Soon, the mechanic was out for another test ride and the report was good!

From there, I rode the cycle on up to Rosamond (~100 miles) and then took it on another 100 miles journey the following day after the show at Willow Springs.

The cycle performed flawlessly and the power was noticeably improved.

On Sunday, I began the ride home still very satisfied with the repairs as the cycle was running great and the charging system was working perfectly.

I stopped to refuel and have brunch and was back on the road again about an hour later.  

When I hit the 15 South, the cycle suddenly stalled.  It felt like it had ran out of fuel so, even though I had gone less than 50 miles, I switched to reserve as I coasted to the shoulder.

There was no indication of any electrical issues and the starter turned freely, but the cycle would not restart.  After about 5 minutes, I tried again, and was surprised when it backfired loudly out of the right carburetor area and then fired up and was purring like normal.

I rode to the next exit and checked the cycle over.  

A couple of things I noticed were the cycle was now dripping oil from the oil sensor (which may be a coincidence, but I include it here to provide as much detail as possible), and air bubble were flowing up from the fuel filter window on the right side.  

I reseated the fuel hoses to the petcock and checked the oil and thought it best to get the cycle on home.

Back on the highway, it stalled again (symptom reminded me or vapor lock as it did not struggle on one cylinder it just stopped running).  Again, I waited and again a large backfire was followed by successful and smooth ignition.

This occurred several more time on the ride home (~120 miles) and I stayed in the right lane so that I had easy access to the shoulder.  The symptoms were always the same.

On Tuesday, I called the BMW in Orange and was told that it sounded like a problem with the hose from the tank vent being constricted.  They wanted me to bring the cycle in but they are up in Orange and I am in San Diego.  That said, they asked if I would check the vent hose and remove it if needed.

That evening, I pulled the tank and there is no vent house just the nipple on the tank where it would go.  This leads me to believe that the hose had been missing for sometime.  Since, the tank is vented, I am working with the theory that the tank is venting fine.

So, as of now, this is where things stand.  The oil sensor is still leaking oil, and the stalling has not been fixed.  

Just a little extra information, neither carburetor is over-flowing, though I have not pulled of the bowls to check the floats.  I find it odd that the cycle stalled on both cylinders because if there was a problem with one carburetor, I would have expected to lose one cylinder and not both.  

The cycle just shuts down but, so far, has always restarted about being off for a few minutes. Once restarted it runs fine until the next sudden stall.

That is all I can think of at this time.  As this forum has always been a great help to me (especially when I bought my first 1979 R65), I turn once again to all of you for help in resolving this latest issue.

Thanks in advance!

Bill

MPKaier

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2008, 12:06:08 PM »
Bill,
My guess is electrical.  The same thing happened to me when my ignition system failed.  Check for a cracked coil.  A small hairline is all it will take.  The next time it happens, quickly take a spark plug out, put the plug wire back on the spark plug and sit it on the jug to ground it.  Hit the start button.  if you don't see a spark, then you know it's an electrical problem.  Sudden stalling is usually electrical.  It could be the Hall sensor, coil, or something as simple as a loose ground wire.

Good luck,  that's my 2 cents

Mike

not-so-fast-ed

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2008, 12:54:39 PM »
Bill, I've discovered a similar mysterious dying that I've traced to my ignition switch.   Bike dies and although the key is "On", all the instrument idiot lights are out!.  I flip the key off & on, and all the lights come on & I can restart.  Sometimes with a "Bang".
Now I need to see if I can purchase a switch that lets me reuse my current key & lock.  The switch has always been somewhat loose and I've tried to push the wiring connector on tighter, with no success.     :-/

Ed

Offline R80rider

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2008, 01:23:03 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  The lights all stay on so I am not sure it is the ignition switch which was just replaced a few months ago.  Also, if it were a coil, that would just effect one cylinder, yes?

I will, however, check the spark the next time the problem occurs and report back.

Does anyone think this might be fuel delivery related since it is affecting both cylinders?

Offline nhmaf

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2008, 03:07:02 PM »
Well, since they did replace the diaphragms, I suppose it is possible that the reassembly wasn't quite right, or perhaps they pulled the assembly out to work on it
and possibly tweaked/bent the jet needle putting it back together ?   That shouldn't cause it to suddenly stall, though, but I'd still take the tops off the Bings and
look for something loose.   If the bike is backfiring that means that cylinder is getting plenty/too much gas/running rich, usually.  Or else the cylinder isn't necessariy running that rich but hasn't been getting any spark for a number of revolutions, so when the spark DOES come it has plenty of fuel to ignite.   Are you still running original plug
wires and coil ?   I'd check them and look for loose connections around the coil and ignition control module under the tank.     If it tends to be stalling out when it
is hot out and you've been running awhile, it could also be the ignition control module is getting hot and shutting down - maybe time to clean and reapply some heatsink paste
to the back of it.   But then again, if it does try to run on (1) cylinder while attempting to restart, that means the ICM is indeed working and we're back to looking at the coil
and plug wire/connections.
Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2008, 06:54:38 PM »
When my bike runs out of the main fuel level it doesn't stall, it just starts stumbling, and I can flip the lever up to the reserve position and it smooths back out in a few seconds (seems like minutes if I'm on a busy road though!).  So I think it's more likely electrical, too.  It sucks, though, to have to wait until it stalls by the side of the road to be able to check for spark.  Do you carry a spark plug socket with you, anyway?

Good luck,
Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Bill90Loyale

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2008, 09:31:06 PM »
Quote
  If it tends to be stalling out when it
is hot out and you've been running awhile, it could also be the ignition control module is getting hot and shutting down - maybe time to clean and reapply some heatsink paste to the back of it.  
This is where I'd start.

Offline R80rider

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2008, 10:14:10 PM »
Excellent!  You are seem to be in agreement that this is electrical, so I will set my sites on the ignition control module.  By the way, I have not had this cycle long and, up until now, it has only been ridden in cool weather and was purchased in the Bay Area.  

NHMAF - your mentioning that this module could be effected by heat was uncanny as the temperature was in the 90s when the failures occurred (a fact I had not even mentioned).

Thanks to ALL!  I will let you know when I have dressed and pasted the ignition module and taken her for a good ride (with my plug wrench handy to check spark if needed).

Bill

Offline suecanada

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2008, 09:44:14 AM »
Please, please tell us what the problem really was when you find out. I really want to know about this one. No....visions of my future flash to mind! :o
1983 R65LS - LRB still my favourite!? 1988 Honda NX250, "Toodles Too" and a Suzuki DR650, "Calypso." All stored in the "Brrrmmm Closet".

Offline nhmaf

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2008, 09:13:25 PM »
Good luck and do please let us know the outcome !

It may be something else, but ICM heatsink paste is one of the cheapest problems to fix so we'll keep our fingers crossed.

Airhead #12178 ? BMWMOA #123173 ?BMWRA #33525 ?GSBMWR #563 ?1982 BMW R65LS ?1978 BMW R100/7 1998 Kawasaki Concours

Offline R80rider

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2008, 09:28:12 PM »
I will let you all know.  I am going to do this along with some other maintenance on all my cycles next weekend.

In the meantime, I found a nice pictorial of the process of cleaning and pasting the ignition module.  It also mentions to do this when the cycle runs fine cool but quits for no known reason when hot.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-maintenance/ignition-heat-sink/

I will post and update here next Sunday.

Bill

Offline Justin B.

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 10:00:30 AM »
A "free" thing you could try (may have already been suggested) is if this "stalls" again loosen the fuel cap.  If it immediately (after a few seconds) starts OK then maybe there is a vent issue.  But, the others have pointed to a very likely culprit.  Also, just as soon as it dies you could pull a plug, crank, and see if you have any spark.  If there is no spark that narrows things down a great deal.  When it "stalls" does the tach immediately drop to zero or does it wind down in sync with the declining RPMs?
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

trolle

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 03:10:48 AM »
I would put my money on the ignition module. I have had the same problems usually after an hour on the motorway at high speed. After five minutes the engine starts as if nothing has happened.

The backfiring is caused by fuel being sucked in and blown into the excaust pipes after the ignition fails. When the ignition comes on again, the fumes in the excaust ignites. Fuel starvation does not result in backfiring. I had a muffler destroyed by backfiring when the lead to the ignition module became loose. I was doing 80 mph when that happened and the muffler split from front to back in the welding seam.

greetings from a very sunny and slightly warmer north with excellent driving conditions  :) (and gardening conditions, my wife says  :( )

trolle

Offline R80rider

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 11:59:31 AM »
A quick, but inconclusive update for all of you.  The ignition control units were cleaned and pasted on both the 86 (problem cycle) and the 87 yesterday along with some other needed items.  

The R80RT was taken out for a short ride but this was in the evening when it was cool.

Today it is supposed to be a blistering 92F in San Diego so a longer ride in this heat will be a good test.

Upon return, I will post again and, hopefully, provide good news.

Bill

Offline R80rider

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Re: R80RT Stalling Problem - Help!
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 05:11:48 PM »
No good.  We got the cycle out on the road and within 20 miles it had stalled again with the exact same symptoms.  It is obvious whatever is causing this is something that controls both cylinders as just stops running.  

Since we have the 87 R80, we swapped the Ignition Control Module between the 2 cycles but the problem not only did not move, the 86 R80RT continued to stall out just as it had done before.  Although, I failed to get a spark test after it fired, I am pretty well convinced it is losing spark for 3-5 minutes when it dies.  As I mentioned before, the lights stay on and the starter still turns over.  Also, as one or more of you mentioned, when it does start again it does with a backfire or two due unburnt fuel in the cylinders when it dies.

Since I have the R80 to swap from, I am open for suggestions as to what we should move between cycles next.

Any and all ideas are highly appreciated.

Thanks to all for continuing to help with this!!

Bill