Author Topic: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!  (Read 9978 times)

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2007, 12:37:42 PM »
Quote
Tranny update:  It shifts OK but when down shifting I have to let the lever snap back to center in order to get it where I can select the next gear down.  Any ideas on this would be greatly appreciated.
Bill
.


If I understand you right, then it's supposed to do that.  It ratchets back before it can get another grab on the inner gearbox shifter.  Assuming it's anything like the one on my Bonnie, that is.  The problem I had to fix was replacing the spring that returns the shifter to center (there are two, one for each direction).  To continue down shifting, I had to actually push the lever back up into the middle position with my foot.  

Avon Roadrunners will ease your high speed worries.   Your '71 brakes are widely considered to be not quite as good as the '69 and '70, but if set up right they are probably better.  In fact, I think they are similar to the BMW twin leading shoe drum brakes of the time, with something funny that I can't remember about the cables....  That was really useful, wasn't it?  

Have fun,
Ed

Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2007, 10:03:00 PM »
Quote

If I understand you right, then it's supposed to do that.  It ratchets back before it can get another grab on the inner gearbox shifter.  Assuming it's anything like the one on my Bonnie, that is.  The problem I had to fix was replacing the spring that returns the shifter to center (there are two, one for each direction).  To continue down shifting, I had to actually push the lever back up into the middle position with my foot.

Hi Ed,

No the shift lever spring on the the foot change lever works fine.  But some thing inside doesn't catch the next gear unless, when I'm down shifting, I select the next gear down and then while the lever is fully down, slide my foot sideways off the lever alowing the spring to "snap" the lever back.  If I don't do it this way when I go to select the next gear down,  there will be nothing there to select.  :-?   I'm wondering where the problem is - Cam plate or ratchet or ????.  Just looking for some info before I actually dive in.  Right now I want to ride more than I want to fix it.   ::)
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2007, 12:10:12 AM »
OH.  Sounds sticky.  Maybe it will go away on it's own?  Some time after a ride, when the bike is well warmed up, lean it over pretty far to the right so that gear oil can flow from the inner box to the outer section where that shifter ratchet thing does it's mysterious job.  Even if that doesn't help, it's good to keep things from rusting out.  

Here's a pretty good forum for British bikes, if you haven't found it yet:

http://216.122.73.247/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

They even have a specific room for BSA stuff, though of course I haven't been into it.

...snark, snark....

If yours is anything like my Bonnie, ride it enough and you will agree with me that R65s don't vibrate.

At all.  

Ed
Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2007, 09:35:19 PM »
Quote
If yours is anything like my Bonnie, ride it enough and you will agree with me that R65s don't vibrate.

At all.  

Ed

The foot pegs buzz abit but the handle bars are OK.  My friend's Firebird buzzes a lot more.  I bet its the carb sync.  AMAL's don't have manometer sync taps.  And I thought tuning Bings was an art!!!!

Lufty rubber washer kit on my R65 really helps out!!
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

its_only_me

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2007, 12:11:08 PM »
71/72, that was about the time they changed the frame from dove grey to black, so maybe yours is a black frame model?

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2007, 12:19:09 PM »
[/quote]

The foot pegs buzz abit but the handle bars are OK.  My friend's Firebird buzzes a lot more.  I bet its the carb sync.  AMAL's don't have manometer sync taps.  And I thought tuning Bings was an art!!!!

[/quote]

The dual carb models have a cross over tube (1/4" fuel line) between the two intake manifolds, which is where you attach the manometer.  Lately I'm getting so lazy I just do it by ear, though.  Amals are much simpler than Bing CV carbs, but they don't seem to hold the tune for as long.  I don't know why.  Maybe because the points wear out a bit and people try to tune the carbs to compensate...  I hope I'm past that sort of stuff!

Why do you think the Britbikes use dual points whereas BMW apparently did just fine with one set of points and a wasted spark?  I'm guessing it's a hot rod thing, giving each coil more dwell time and a hotter spark, but I wonder how much difference it really makes.  My mom has a '65 Imperial with a 413, and I was reading her shop manual prior to tuning the car up and noticed that they had a dual point option for the muscle cars; thankfully hers just has one set of points.

Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Online Justin B.

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2007, 06:24:12 PM »
Dual points allow you to keep juice on the coil primary longer, resulting in better saturation (especially at higher RPM), and therefore stronger spark.  Perhaps the BMW doesn't really need this due to being a lower revving engine than some...
Justin B.

2004 BMW R1150RT
1981 R100RT - Summer bike, NEKKID!!!

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2007, 10:27:57 PM »
Quote
71/72, that was about the time they changed the frame from dove grey to black, so maybe yours is a black frame model?

Mine may be one of the bikes that came over Dove grey and then left the dealer Black.  My friend said when they arrived, the faithful revolted.  Dealers had to paint the frames black in order to get them to sell.  Curiously on this bike the only place I can find the Dove Grey is under black paint on the shocks.  Perhaps this is a "black" framed model.

I was going to go and flush out the engine with fresh oil (of a brand not to be named in this forum or even under extreem duress).  But the temp is going to be 22'F tomorrow and I just don't feel like working out of doors in the cold. :(

I reserve the right to change my mind on this however....
 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 09:54:30 AM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

its_only_me

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2007, 02:14:28 PM »
Hey Bill have you checked out this site.....

http://forum.britbike.com/

one of the guys there runs a Brit bike shop in Atlanta ;) and may point you in the direction of a remote oil filter.

also look at this picture of a A65 with filter fitted

http://image1.frappr.com/pix1/i/20060505/9/6/9/969fe8b29943e37cb67862ce1390d6400
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 02:23:03 PM by its_only_me »

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 12:43:57 PM »
Hi Kevin,

Yep that is the Norton kit which is available from a couple of places.  What a nice T-Bolt.  That is what I am aiming for...It has the larger tank (good) and the bar end mirrors (not stock)  and aftermarket shocks.  Stuff noted!

But all in all...SWEEEEET!   :)

I'm registered on Britbike as semper gumby!!!!!!
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 12:49:16 PM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline MrRiden

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2007, 10:19:54 AM »
Bill,
As far as the shifting problem goes, there may be an upgrade you can go for. If the BSA is anything like it's brother the TR6R the indexing cam in the tranny is locating via a leaf spring that presses into the indents on that cam. The upgrade was to go to a plunger type spring by drilling and threading the bottom of the tranny. This was as seen on later models. Ask about this on the Britt lists, I'm sure someone will be familiar with it. Also, the old britt gearboxes are very much affected by weight / grade of oil so you may also want to start a dreaded "oil thread" but you'll get lots of answers!
you may also want to refer to this list: http://users.rcn.com/cstringe/brit.html

Cheers
Rich
geocities.com/mrriden
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 10:25:15 AM by MrRiden »
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2007, 12:59:51 PM »
Hey Rich, it doesn't look like Chuck pays much attention to the Brit Iron list front page.  Do you think I can still get free 2004 election bumper stickers?   ;D

I've been on Brit Iron since the late 80s.  I think it predates the internet as we know it.  It's really died down over the past couple of years, fewer than 500 members now.  

I'd forgotten about the plunger spring mod; all the Triumphs had them up until 1970; in 1971 they switched to the leaf spring you mention, and I don't know when they switched back.  You could have mentioned what oil you run in your Triumph's gear box....  :-)  I use 75W-90, not AMSOIL yet but I will switch over eventually.


Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

Offline MrRiden

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  • R65LS Phoenix, Arizona
Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2007, 09:40:43 AM »
Ed,
Um yes the archives page is a bit dated... I haven't been signed up there for a couple of years. It was, and probably still is an interesting list even tho' the format does date back to the days of direct dial up to a server. It was my introduction to a world where Haynes wasn't the ultimate authority! I can remember heated debates on the metallurgy of "pot" metal or the virtues of plug indexing. The regular posters ranged from informative to hilarious. I was always fond of how "Pete the cheep" solved problems with common household remedys. Ah but the increased political bickering took away from my refuge which is still motorcycling. The lack of specific areas on a list like that, for off topic posting, is what (in my opinion) caused people to move to more modern formats like this one. Still a good source none the less.
Rich
'72 TR6R
'73 Bonneville
'82 R65LS
Boxes of "bits" for all
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".

Offline Semper Gumby

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2007, 01:36:14 PM »
Wow!  Drained the oil (from the Frame) and the sump screen yesterday.  I have never seen such goo.  Black goo about 1/2" worth around the resevoir filter!   Just a little below the sump screen.  Cleaned it all out and poured in a cheap 15W40 desiel oil to clean the bike out.  I'm going to run it about 100 miles and then dump it.  Then I will do it one more time before switching to expensive motorcycle only 20W50 or possibly a straight 50 weight.

No shiney metal bits (thankgoodness).

Tranny still doesn't down shift properly.  I'm getting ready for surgery.  Collecting gaskets and seals first.

Fresh oil, NGK Iridiums and new solid core wires - bike runs great faster than the brakes are good for.  Sorry I forgot the camera.  Still no pics.

After engine warms up, oil presssure light comes on at about 1500 rpms.  I'm hoping the thicker oil will cure this otherwise I will rebuild the oil pump.

TTFN,
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 01:37:05 PM by Semper_Gumby »
Bill Gould ?1980/03 R65 When at first you don't succeed....Moo!

Offline MrRiden

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Re: 1971 A65T Thunderbolt - The other 650!
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2007, 10:48:18 AM »
If anyone else is so inclined. Came across this
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/mcy/284326540.html
"We can't stop here. This is bat country".