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Author Topic: Calling all household electrical geniuses......  (Read 8831 times)

Offline DeeG

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Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« on: July 06, 2009, 02:17:09 AM »
I have been cleaning up the shop (we call our 40x60 garage 'the shop').  Moved the tool boxes and workbench so now I have a nice space to park a bike and work on it without bumping into anything.  

Problem is:  Shop has electricity going to the panel on the wall.  Have a nice big switch box with lots of open places to put circuits.  Currently only one 110V and one 220V.  The 110 has a passel of extension cords coming off it.  Yes, I know.  Only major thing on them is some flourescent lights.  ANd everything gets unplugged when I'm done.

We will be installing more 110 circuits this fall as I want permanent lighting and such.

What I want is a 12V line to my work bench.  Spouse says too much work.  Gotta add this and that and a battery and yada yada yada.

CAN this be done????  Or would it be easier to have a circuit with a separate power converter?

 

Dee G
1978 R45/N ?
1978 R80 w/hack
1971 R75 (swb)

Offline montmil

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 06:26:35 AM »
"The 110 has a passel of extension cords coming off it."

Please tell us your shop is not attached to your home! Danger, Will Robinson, danger!

Would be far more economical to add additional circuits and breakers within your existing service panel than to rebuild after a fire caused by overloading the snake's nest of extension cords. If you are unsure about doing this yourself, hire an electrician...soon.

Then, plug the new 110-12V inverter into one of those breaker-protected circuits you recently installed.

Be safe. Stay safe.     Monte
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Ed Miller

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 05:32:32 PM »
I'm drooling....  40 x 60?  Wow.

Ed Miller
'81 r65
Falls City, OR

weasel01

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 08:45:35 PM »
how much current do you require? there are a few was of doing that.

Offline nhmaf

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 08:52:28 PM »
Depending on your 12V current needs,  a basic 120V input, 12V output power supply can be had for reasonable cost - either lifted from an old PC or a very basic 12V linear power supply and fitted with a proper AC cord and plugged into a normal 120V receptacle.  IF you're looking at more than a few amperes of 12V, then it does get more expensive, but still easily do-able.
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Offline Lucky_Lou

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 10:15:59 AM »
If your not useing the 220V line get an inverter for that but please make sure you have RCCB protection on any supply power points
Lou
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bjamesw

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 10:55:19 AM »
If this is for simple testing, troubleshooting, or any number of little DC mad science projects, I've found that a drawerful of second hand wall transformers is very handy.   Many jobs can be handled with a 5A switch mode power supply from a laptop computer.  They'll range from 12 to 20 volts DC generally.  I've got half a dozen of these for a buck each from Goodwill.   I've also got lots and lots of fifty cent standard wall transformers ranging from 1.5 volts up to 30.   Most standard (non switch mode) wall transformers are both low current (usually in milliamps) compared to computer power supplies, and much less precise (and much cheaper to manufacture).   If it's labelled 4.5 or 12 volts, for instance,  a meter will reveal it to be off of that by quite a few volts in either direction.   The cheap consumer items they mate these to just don't really care if they get EXACTLY 4.5 volts.   An SMPS is usually spot on.  

You can tell if it's an older style transformer, or an SMPS by weight.  A similarly rated SMPS will weigh 1/4 that of a stacked plate xformer.    A very few occasions arise that will not tolerate the signal conditioning that an SMPS puts out, and you must resort to the old-school transformer, but they are rare (diode circuits seem to not like them).    SMPSs also don't like to respond to modern dimmer inputs (for similar reasons).  A simple dimmer input feeding an standard AC/DC wall transformer is a cheap and handy way to peg the voltage output if you need it to be right on the numbers, or if you need a very light duty adjustable power supply (maybe you want a variable speed muffin fan placed somewhere).  

For needs beyond 5A then a more dedicated bench-top supply, or a module out of a PC is needed.  Brand new though, this stuff is pretty pricey.

The best quick and dirty, occasional use, high amperage testing tool is always going to be the humble benchtop car battery and trickle charger.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 11:20:13 AM by bjamesw »

Offline DeeG

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 01:01:13 AM »
Montmil, The only thing that I use the cords for are a couple of  florescent lights which get unplugged when I leave. And the main plug coming off the box gets shut off as well.   If I need to run the air compressor, I use it during the day when nothing else is 'on'.  The only time a cord is used when I'm not around is during the winter when the Battery Tender is in use. I'm pretty anal about what all gets used at one time.  Had a house burn down once (stupid kids and fireworks) many years ago when I lived in the hills in SoCal.  And no, the house and shop are not attached, the shop is about 40 yards from the house..... hehehe

Until we started riding, the shop was mainly used as storage and a place for field mice to live.  So having lots of outlets wasn't an issue.  Now that I am spending a lot of time down there fussing with the bikes, I want to finally get the miserable place more user friendly and cleaned out.  (anyone want to buy a couple of 70's era Jeep Wagoneers???)

I only want the 12V for convenience.  Charge the GPS or maybe charge up my cell phone without having to drag the cords down from the house.  Or use the Slime 12V air pump instead of firing up the compressor.  Not sure how many amps the Slime draws, but I'm thinking 5A will probably be more than sufficient.  Small things.   OR maybe I can find one with enough capacity so I can snuggle up in my Gerbings and work on the bikes when its 20F out.......   ;D

Hm.... we have a couple of old desktops stuck up on a shelf (antique machines.... Windows 3.1 and even one with IBM OS2!!!).  Perhaps I'll gut one and see if I can't make that work.  I love soldering!!!!  Honest.  I'm finally figuring it out.  Yeah, I know... I'm a dork.  ::)

THANKS!!!!

Dee
Dee G
1978 R45/N ?
1978 R80 w/hack
1971 R75 (swb)

Offline suraklyn

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 04:03:00 PM »
Quote
Would be far more economical to add additional circuits and breakers within your existing service panel than to rebuild after a fire caused by overloading the snake's nest of extension cords. If you are unsure about doing this yourself, hire an electrician...soon.

Then, plug the new 110-12V inverter into one of those breaker-protected circuits you recently installed.

Be safe. Stay safe.     Monte
+1

My dad and I did this to my garage shortly after I bought my house a couple of years ago.  I started with two outlets and one light fixture in the entire garage.  Now, I have a couple additional circuits, over a dozen outlets spread across those new circuits, and half a dozen 4' shop light fixtures spread throughout the garage (thinking of growing that by another one or two).

It's pretty cake.  I have pictures somewhere of how we did it if you're interested.
1980 R65 "RS"
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Offline montmil

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 04:08:11 PM »
Shop photos? Like Tim The Tool Man Allen, we rewired it. Heck yeah. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet

Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 06:45:26 PM »
If you need more lighting, without adding more wiring , try some 8 foot dual lamp flourescent light fixtures .

I installed four of them in my three car garage, it's like daylight in there .
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Offline suraklyn

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 11:35:18 PM »
http://www.suraklyn.com/projects/garage/

We ran all of the wiring externally of the wall inside some 5/8" conduit (that's some massive conduit for the wiring we ran, but the local Home Depot didn't stock anything smaller); in addition to that, we ran hot, neutral and ground wires individually inside the conduit up to the attic -- why? we thought that was what you were supposed to do when using conduit, but we later learned it's fine to run romex through conduit.

We ran romex in the attic for attaching each strip of outlets to the new breakers added into the box; we snaked the romex down the wall with a fish tape through the existing bundle of wires (a little tip from an electrician friend of mine).

For the lighting, we just tapped into the existing circuit the one light fixture was already on; there wasn't a lot on this circuit, so it turned out pretty convenient.

We took about a day and a half to do all of it, but we weren't in a real rush; you could probably get it done in the better part of a day if you felt so inclined.

All in all, it only cost a couple hundred in material to do; I figure I'll get that back when I sell the house.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 11:35:56 PM by suraklyn »
1980 R65 "RS"
2005 R1200ST


2011 Fuji Roubaix 3.0
2012 Kestrel RT1000SL
2014 Fuji Norcom Straight 2.0

Offline Bengt_Phorqs

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 12:41:25 PM »
Quote
If you need more lighting, without adding more wiring , try some 8 foot dual lamp flourescent light fixtures .

I installed four of them in my three car garage, it's like daylight in there .  
Bob, are those all wired in series?  I have one 75watt bulb in the center of the garage, soon to be Man Cave, and that's just not enough lumens.  How many amps will an 8ft fluorescent draw?
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Offline Bob_Roller

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 12:49:46 PM »
I'd have to take one apart to check the current draw, but I think it's about 1.5-2 amps per fixture, they are 40 watt lamps .

I'm not really sure how its wired, I had the electricians install the wiring when the house was built, and I installed the fixtures later .

'81 R65
'82 R65 LS
'84 R65 LS
'87 Moto Guzzi V65 Lario
'02 R1150R
Riding all year long since 1993 .
I'll give up my R65, when they pry my cold dead hands from the handlebars !!!!!

Offline montmil

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Re: Calling all household electrical geniuses......
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2009, 01:03:49 PM »
Anyone remember the electrical system in Oliver and Lisa Douglas' kitchen, circa Green Acres?  Let's see, Darling. A two vit a three or a one vit a four...

You can add two dozen or so outlets around your shop -for convenience- but you must, absolutely must, know how many amps you're asking a circuit to handle.

Adding additional circuits -and their associated breakers- to an existing service panel is not difficult. Check your panel and read the load rating of the breakers you presently have. If you find a few 15amp breakers, these can be safely upgraded to 20amps in most newer homes.

Service panel full? A sub panel can be fitted, too.  



« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 01:05:06 PM by montmil »
Monte Miller
Denton, TEXAS
1978 BMW R100S
1981 BMW R65
1983 BMW R65
1995 Triumph Trophy
1986 VW Cabriolet