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Author Topic: Aussie Magazine Readers  (Read 1357 times)

Offline dav

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Aussie Magazine Readers
« on: August 02, 2014, 11:58:41 PM »
Just a heads up for all Aussie fourm members, Motorcycle Trader magazine has a 3 page write up about our R65 under the heading "Reader's Resto".

Cheers. [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]
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Offline Burt

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 04:56:59 AM »
Kool.  Best be buying a couple of copies.  Might be an idea to upload the article for the benefit of the members.   8-)
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balibeemer

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 10:39:58 PM »
Quote
Kool.  Best be buying a couple of copies.  Might be an idea to upload the article for the benefit of the members.   8-)

Yess!

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:12:39 PM »
Quote
Just a heads up for all Aussie fourm members, Motorcycle Trader magazine has a 3 page write up about our R65 under the heading "Reader's Resto".

Cheers. [smiley=bmw_smiley.gif]

What month?I don't normally buy MT since they pass off advertising pap as ride reports (more on this below) but I bought this month's edition because of the supposed R65 article.
 
There is an article about a bestial cafe conversion of what was apparently once a very nice R80, but nothing about an R65? any chance if it was last month, that you could scan the article and put it up here?
 
 
/rant-on
I dislike Motorcycle Trader because last year Yamaha released a new triple, MT supposedly did a ride test and published a lot of drivel including how the new Yamaha triple features a "450 degree" crank for smooth power delivery.
 
I found that fascinating because as we all know, there are only 360 degrees in a circle, so whilst theoretically the crank webs could be phased 90 degrees, giving a "2 up, 1 down" arrangement, the question would be why? As far as I know, Laverda were the last manufacturer of a triple using a flat plane crank, not only did that lazy 90 degrees left over give them a decidedly odd exhaust note, they also vibrated like 40 bastards which led Laverda to invest in the machining equipment capable of casting, machining and grinding a 120 degree crank and the next model was in fact a 120 degree crank which was the making of the Jota.
 
In Yamaha's first iteration of a triple - the 1970s era XS750/850, they used a 120 degree crank from the outset, resulting in what is generally regarded as an engine of such smoothness as is only approached by the likes of the CBX Honda, the Z1300 Kawasaki and the Benelli SE.
 
So it struck me as passing odd that Yamaha would build a smooth running flat plane crank triple when the required balance shafts could simply be deleted if you used 120 degrees (and as a famous GM engineer "Boss" Kettering (the inventor of the points triggered ignition system) once said - "Parts left out cost nothing and create no servicing problems.".
 
The alleged reviewer from MT responded to me by email, unfortunately his response revealed that he had no idea what he was talking about. I wrote back to him and he responded by sending me the full text of "his" ride report which he alleged had been cut in an less than opportune manner by the editor.

Sadly for him, I am a suspicious and mis-trusting soul and I used one of the more unique paragraphs in "his" unedited "ride report" into Google - which came back with a Yamaha America press release which just happened to have about 98% commonality with "his" ride report (and which also contained the same obvious error about a 450 degree crank).
 
I dislike so-called reviewers regurgitating pre-packaged advertising material and presenting it as their own unbiased opinion arrived at as a result of their own riding and testing of the bike involved. In fact I think such behaviour crosses the line into deceptive and misleading conduct and we actually have consumer protection laws in Australia that deal with that sort of thing.

Anyway, I have a snout of Motorcycle Trader as a result, the only thing that would appease me is if they simply give me the two adventure prepped Dr Sues they are giving away to a lucky subscriber at the end of this month. Yes, that would do it.
 
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |


Offline Motu

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 01:48:44 AM »
Quote

So it struck me as passing odd that Yamaha would build a smooth running flat plane crank triple when the required balance shafts could simply be deleted if you used 120 degrees (and as a famous GM engineer "Boss" Kettering (the inventor of the points triggered ignition system) once said - "Parts left out cost nothing and create no servicing problems.".

A triple is actuually a badly balanced engine, although looking at it you'd think not...it's in perfect  static balance, but running it's not good. The best way to balance it is to put another 3 cyl on the end - the inline six.  Some triples like Daihatsu use a balance shaft.  You don't have to use a balance shaft in singles and 360 twins, but these days customers demand it...same with a modern triple.

Offline Tony Smith

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 05:40:28 PM »
Quote
Quote

So it struck me as passing odd that Yamaha would build a smooth running flat plane crank triple when the required balance shafts could simply be deleted if you used 120 degrees (and as a famous GM engineer "Boss" Kettering (the inventor of the points triggered ignition system) once said - "Parts left out cost nothing and create no servicing problems.".

A triple is actuually a badly balanced engine, although looking at it you'd think not...it's in perfect  static balance, but running it's not good. The best way to balance it is to put another 3 cyl on the end - the inline six.  Some triples like Daihatsu use a balance shaft.  You don't have to use a balance shaft in singles and 360 twins, but these days customers demand it...same with a modern triple.


Forgive me but you are wrong on both engineering and practical levels.

Yes, due to the inevitable "1,2,3" firing order there is the potential to set up a noticeable rocking couple effect, however for engines of the component weight of motorcycle engines this is unnoticeable to the rider if the frame is engineered to absorb it.

I do point out that a similar argument could be mounted about our beloved boxer engines, they too are "unbalanced" to the extent of a vertical plane rocking couple - on a practical level nobody notices it and to the extent that they do, it causes no care.

My first experience of a Triple was the Yamaha XS-750 which remains the smoothest motorcycle engine I have ever ridden (with the obvious exception of 6 cylinder engines, which as you rightly point out are able to avoid the transverse "rock" due to firing cylinders at alternate ends of the crank).
 
A early more Laverda Jota on the other hand, aside from having the most interesting exhaust note of any motorcycle ever! Suffers from some very bad vibration periods as it is a flat plane crank, essentially a four cylinder crank with one throw lopped off leaving it unbalanced mechanically and in operation at some rev ranges that dead 90 degrees without a firing pulse is quite noticeable.

Auto engine manufacturers face a difference set of problems given the general "weight" of componentry can create different problems, some manufacturers fit balances shafts, some do not. My own thinking is, i suspect, somewhat in accord with your - manufacturers fit balance shafts as "fashion accessories" rather than engineering need.
1978 R100RS| 1981 R100RS (JPS) | 1984 R65 | 1992 KLE500 | 2002 R1150GSA |

Offline Motu

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Re: Aussie Magazine Readers
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 07:11:24 PM »
Yes, fashion accessories, the customer expects a vibration free engine these days, and more complexity is seen as desirable.  You will see more and more balance shafts where you think they don't really need one.  Mitsubishi had the 4 cyl secondary balance shafts tied up in a patent, and now other manufacturers are fitting them - we used to remove the balance shafts, and you can't pick the difference.  My DT230 had a balance shaft, totally unnessesary on a 225cc 2 stroke you'd think, but it was there.

Get used to them, they are here to stay.