Won't re-start when warmed up

[MrRiden]

According to Realoem.com there are some 'pieces parts' missing

I'm starting to wonder if you have the correct module even tho its physical appearance looks kosher.
rich

Justin, what kind of voltage regulator is that in your pic?

[Justin B.]

Rich, his module may be what BMW is now listing as a replacement part.  It seems more "square" in shape than any others I have seen.  The one I remember in our old '80 BMW 320i was the same shape as that in my pic as is the one in our current Volvo.  It seems I remember a discussion concerning the new replacement coils requiring a different ICU module.  Maybe this is the animal?

As far as the regulator, it is the solid-state one sold by Euro MotoElectrics.  I also have one of the adjustable ones that looks identical except for the trim-pot adjuster screw on the underneath side.  I had bought two of the fixed regulators and John kicked sent me one fixed and upgraded one to the adjustable type at no charge just so I could try it out!  I've always had super good "vibes" dealing with him.

This look kinda familiar?  1993 Volvo 240...

[olderguy]

Guys
I have gone on the A&S BMW website and have the parts listing for my Module and it is the correct number. It is square as you can see in my pics and looks very much like McRiden's picture but is not mounted in line with the upper frame rail but rather perpendicular to to it. Sticking out at a 90 degree angle.
The bike, now completely cooled off, will start and run but I have not had the time to babysit it while it warms up to see if it will restart when hot.
I'll let you know. I'm hopeful that the undersided mounting affair I discovered was the culprit but who knows?

[nhmaf]

Did the dealer - or you - clean off the back side of the module and the aluminum mounting block and put a fresh coat of heatsink paste (available at Radio shack or hobby electronics stores) on it ?   Does the aluminum/white metal block have a good, flat surface contact with whatever that black piece of metal is that it is screwed on to ?  The module has to be able to dump its heat effectively into a large metal mass to stay cool.  Any air gaps cut down on the working surface area to transfer the heat.

You've probably already seen these from others, but here is a link to some photos of what the standard mounting setup looks like:
http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/nhmaf/?action=view&current=CoilReplacement01.jpg

http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/nhmaf/?action=view&current=CoilReplacement03.jpg

[olderguy]

The module is permanently sealed (riveted) to the heatsink on my unit and as such I'm unable to clean or put grease there
the mount that I went with is similiar to yours - that  is a small l shaped braket coming off the main frame rail at a 90 degree angle but only 1/2 wide(like yours)
Apparently BMW has changed the mounting somewhat because the center to center spacing on the new BMWQ replacement Mod is 1/4 inch wider than the braket on the main frame
there is no room to drill another hole -so I elected to mount it to the braket with 1 bolt going through the mod and into the hole closest to the frame
Olderguy

[Ed Miller]

Here's an article on trouble shooting those ignition parts; most of the how-to is at the bottom:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/Ignition.htm

Do you know anybody else near you who can loan you a bean can to swap in for a test of that?

Now I'm glad I bought the ignition control unit from Rocky Point, as it was a direct replacement for the OEM unit.

[olderguy]

well, bad news for the home team
I had a chance to go out and work in the garage on soem things so I started up the R65 and let it run
I turned it off a couple times for a minute or so and it would start back up. Great! Then I let it run a while turned it off and walked next door for about 15 minutes - bad news - won't start now.
Pulled a plug, reinserted in the wire and grounded it against the cylinder - no spark.
Back to square one.
the $150 Module is only a year old and has fewer than 500 miles on it - could it be Bad?
Very frustrating to say to least
I'm afraid to go for a ride any further than I would want to push it home.
-Olderguy

[Bob_Roller]

You said that the ignition coil is new, from your picture, it looks like the coil is black and grey in color.

Did you purchase it new from a dealer or other OEM source, or is it new to you, a used part ?

If it is a black and grey coil, they have a habit of cracking with age, also check the resistance value of the primary and secondary circuits.

Primary winding should be 1.5 ohms, and secondary around 12-13,000 or so ohms.

Did you try to cool the ignition conrtol module, to see if it was a temperature related problem?

[MrRiden]

Good News, no really! You can recreate the fault. Easy test: Get a can of compressed air at your computer store, typically used to blow off dust on electrical stuff / keyboards. Might be called "Dust-Off". Run the bike, make it fail, spray the module holding the can upside down. Icy cold liquid will come out and freeze the module. Try to start. Crude, but it will tell you if there is a heat related failure of the ignition module without being an electrical test wizzard.
rich

[olderguy]

I haven't tried to cool the part yet - but I will
The coil was purchased (along with a new module) from BMW of Cleveland in Aurora Ohio about a year ago. Both the Coil and the Module were to have been new in the box
Both of them, installed, along with diagnostics, etc was around $500

[Bob_Roller]

There could be a few other possibilities for an ignition failure, a faulty tachometer can render the ignition inoperable, a remote possibility, but if you can remove the connector on the back of the tachometer, it would take one more thing out of the troubleshooting process.

The other more likely suspect would be the Hall Effect sensor ( a semi-conductor electronic switch that is triggered by a magnetic field) inside the ignition canister that sits behind the front cover of the engine.

May be another part to rapidly cool down if you can get the ignition to fail.

Have you checked the condition ( corrosion), security and cleanliness of any of the electrical connectors, they can cause electrical problems, but usually not temperature related, may want to try wiggling the wiring harness to see if it helps any when the ignition fails.

[nhmaf]

I guess that I haven't seen Hall effect sensor fail in such a flaky fashion as this, but it is a possibility.
Somewhere along the line I've got to get a used canister from somewhere and see how bad of a job it is to
replace the sensor in it - there are a couple sources of these sensors from electronics stores, and I could
repair them alot more cheaply than what some places are charging for refurbished ones, I think..

I am still suspicious of the coils and/or the current source in this case, however.

It would be very helpful to check the coil's resistance (primary and secondary) with the ignition turned off- the
values expected are as previously posted by Bob R - when the bike is not starting for you.  It would also be useful to check the voltage at the primary when you are cranking the engine trying to get it to start.   Are you familiar with using a multimeter and/or have access to one ?

[Bob_Roller]

There's the complete procedure in our R65 Technical FAQ section, doesn't look to be too difficult of a job, and the sensor itself is about $15.

[olderguy]

Had an opportunity to try to cool the Ign Mod during failure. I started the bike and let it run for a while shut it down and of course it would not re-start. I had already partially lifted the tank for access so I sprayed Radio Shack Component Cooler on it until is was VERY cool. Still no spark. Pour a Scotch and went inside
6 hours later - went out and it fired right up

When you put the Dyna Ign system on a 1982 R65 does it effectively eliminate everything that may be causing me a problem? I gotta' tell you I'm ready to spend the $300 to fix this thing right now. I'm already in it with $2100 what's another $300 for it to run longer that 30 minutes at a time
thoughts
-Olderguy

[Bob_Roller]

I think Omega is about the only replacement system available for the electronic ignition bikes, it uses the ignition coil that's installed, and some wiring in the bike,  all of the other components are from Omega.

I know a member here, Semper Gumby, installed  this system on his '80 R65, may want to send him a Personal Message for feedback on his experience, but from what I can remember, he is quite pleased with the Omega system.

How long do you let the bike run before shutting it down ?

I don't know how much more time you want to put into this problem, but the ignition canister under the front cover of the engine, hasn't been addressed yet.

There's two allen head bolts that hold the front cover on, ( before you remove this cover, remove the positive lead from the battery, as there some connections in there that are 'hot', they have power all the time, so you could end up with a 'shower of sparks' if you touched the cover to one of them) then I think there are two phillips head screws holding the cover on the canister.

You could try spray freeze on the the Hall Effect sensor area to see if it is the faulty component.

I don't think cooling the outer housing will do you much good.

Other than this, the only things left in the system are wires, ignition switch, and tachometer.

Gets a bit frustrating trying to find an intermittent electrical problem, then usually it's not a complicated repair after the problem area is found.