Won't re-start when warmed up

[olderguy]

Hope someone has a few ideas.
1982 R65 - stock - 40,000
new Battery - new coil - new ing module - new plugs, wires
tuned, new fluids - you get the point
I inherited this bike from my Father in Law a couple of years ago when he passed away
I did a cosmetic restoration and all the basic things to keep it on the road.
The bike sits in a heated garage along side 2 other bikes
It will start, idle and runs great ----until I stop it for gas, a beer, to talk to someone, etc
It will not re-start until it has sat for a couple hours. Cranks over fine - no spark at the plugs
re-read the first few lines - I've replaced everything I can think might be the culprit
any thoughts from someone smarter than me!!!
I've had a few dozen bikes - 4 BMW's included
But I'm a Beer Salesman - not a Tech - so don't expect alot of smarts on this end of the line!
thanks
-olderguy

[tagordon]

What happens when u push the start button?
Does anything happen?
Does the starter engage, do you hear anything.
Give us more details, please.
Troy

[Justin B.]

It could possibly be either the Hall-effect sensor in your ignition "bean-can" or the ignition amplifier.  Since it will go ahead and start fine after cooling down then I would remove the ignition amplifier, clean mounting surface, apply fresh heatsink compound, and reinstall.  The heatsink compound gives out after a few years and the heat geberated by the amplifier does not transfer as well as it should and it could be getting too hot.  I know there are a pic on the board (somewhere) from underneath the gas tank showing this item but if you can't find it maybe somebody could re-post or point you to it.

[Justin B.]

Troy, the post states it cranks over fine but no spark at plugs.

[MrRiden]

you said that you changed the "ing module" I'm guessing here that you are referring to the ignition module or amplifier as Justin put it. You do need to apply heat sink compound [grease] to the back of that module. They have been known to fail intermittently when hot [no spark] then werk when cooled down. Radio Shack has what you need.  Catalog #: 276-1372 if this is indeed the cause.
rich

[olderguy]

Ok, to clarify
After it gets "too" warm and won't restart - the starter spins fine, but if you pull a plug there is no spark at the plug

note - the New ign control unit was replaced is NOT mounted as in the pic above
it is under the main frame rail facing the top of the engine NOT on the side facing the right side of the bike as it is in the pic - could this be a problem?

Not really sure what you mean about applying grease to the mod? It's sealed and has no moving parts - where do I put heatsink grease - how much - and how?
sorry - like I warned you - I am not a mechanic

[Bob_Roller]

To narrow it down to the igniton comtrol unit, or amplifier.

If you can ride it and get it fail at home, a quick way to see if the unit is failing due to heat problems, when you are at Radio Shack, or other electronics store, see if you can find a spray product that can 'freeze' or cool down the unit, to see if cooling it will solve the problem.

If this doesn't help, try the same thing to the ignition canister, commonly refered to as the 'bean can', located under the front engine cover.

There is a component in there, a Hall Effect sensor, and it can fail the same way due to heat, and age.

[olderguy]

Thanks
looks like a trip to Radio Shack is in order
I'll get the heat sink grease and freeze spray and see what happens
Do you guys think having it mounted below the frame rail facing the engine is screwing
it up? That's how the local dealer did it!
The Ign Amp is less than 18 months/ 500 miles old - coils are the same age
Keep our fingers crossed
this has become the most expensive "free" motorcycle I have ever heard of
I have roughly $2000 in routine maint. / repairs / cosmetics and have only riden it about 2000 miles since Dad passed away and left it to me
-olderguy

[airhead]

It can face the engine in some installs I've seen. As long as it's on an L shaped bracket with the back of the module firmly attached (with heat sink compound applied) it will be ok. The bracket may also have fins to aid in cooling, at least on the L shaped bracket ones I've seen. Not all are mounted like Rich's photo, I've even seen some of them mounted right near the frame head where the older under tank master cylinder used to be.
Don't get too hung up on mounting location, as long as it has a good contact with the mounting plate which acts as a heat sink. It could be just a lack of heat sink compound and stopping the hot engine allows heat to rise from the engine and over heat the module.
BTW, the compound goes between the module and it's mounting plate, just undo the two securing screws and smear a THIN layer, too thick is just as bad as not enough, you only want it to fill microscopic pores in the face so that it has 100% thermal contact with the mount.



Bill....................;-)

[Justin B.]

I'm wondering if maybe an aftermarket ignition amplifier (like a Dyna or Accel) was installed as the only other orientation I have seen is on R100s and it mounts to the front brakeline splitter assembly.  Olderguy, could you post a pic?  This is what MY '82 LS looks like under the tank, you can see the ICU sandwiched between the Dyna coils and the voltage regulator:

[olderguy]

Went out and un-tie-wrapped the Ign Amp form it's position under the top frame piece (facingdown) and took a few pics - try to post them
the Module(black) is riveted to the alum piece and the only place I could see to mount it is shown in one of the pictures. The mounting holes do not line up however, so only 1 screw would be hold this on
If I'm reading all this correctly - you want me to put the grease on the back of the alum section that will be up against the bracket coming off the frame
Once you open photbucket you will be able to scroll forward or back to the 3 pictures
You can see me pointing at the originol location and see the bracket sticking off the frame(empty) above it
you'll see me holding the unit - and finally see where I THINK I want to mount it
sure hope this works
 http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj180/bjsutter/?action=view&current=IMG_0250.jpg
htthttp://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj180/bjsutter/?action=view&current=IMG_0248.jpgp://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj180/bjsutter/?action=view&current=IMG_0249.jpg

[Justin B.]

Yes, that is where it mounts.  It is odd that the holes don't line up and the mechanic chose to "rig" it by tie-wrapping it under the frame tube!  My only thought is that the ICU was not the 100% correct replacement.  The grease goes between the black part (actual ICU) and the silver part (a heatsink) and it's purpose is to assist in conducting heat away from the ICU into the heatsink.

[olderguy]

yeah, I know
the part number is correct according to the manual 12 14 2 325 284
but the holes on the Mod are about 1/4 inch further apart than the holes on the frame mounted bracket.
also
the ign mod is riveted to the alum backing plate and as such, no way to grease in between to two tha I could tell
I'm going to bolt it up like I had the one photo using one bolt ....that will get it about 6 more inches away from the motor and the heat and have it more exposed to airflow
I just have to try it out again and see what happens
-olderguy

[olderguy]

by the way
it now looks alot like Justin B's photo above - just missing the outside bolt
my mod looks to be a little wider

I'm beginning to think that heat sinks work both ways
by that, I mean having in down above the engine facing down is WARMING the Mod not cooling it
fingers officially crossed
Olderguy

[Justin B.]

Weird, that must be an "official substitute".  I think that same module (minus heatsink)  is also used in various Volvo, BMW, and other European cars.

I have never seen one riveted to the heatsink before, it is normally bolted to the heatsink and the heatsink is bolted to the frame bracket.  Even with just one bolt attaching it in the proper position it will still get a little heat conduction to the frame.  I would go ahead and bolt it where it belongs and see if your problem improves.  Also, it's possible that you might be able to drill another hole in the heatsink so that you can get both mounting bolts in.

Correction to above - the module is screwed to the heatsink and heatsink screwed to inner fender on my Volvo 240 - looks like same module.  If you measure between the "rivets" is that distance the same as the hole spacing on the frame bracket?

Never mind, I just took a closer look at your pic of the module...